Learning Capria FFH SG

[Brian Shanahan]

I just noticed something in Haphazard's report about being able to trade for wheat. Take it! It's worth another 10% gold in Paris.

And on a more important note I'd like Olaf Stapledon to be inducted into our worker corps at the earliest opportunity.

[kjn]

Turn played, and working on the report. Some highlights:

Heidelberg (White) settled, and St Andrews (Ultiger) captured. Brian should be able to settle Golden and Whale in his turnset. The NE offshore land is definitely an island - I managed to hawk Amelanchier's entire peninsula.

We have a Great Sage spawned from Oxford, ready for use. I'm thinking bulbing Alteration (after researching KotE) or a Golden Age.

Writing and Trade discovered.

Contact with Flauros of the Calabim. I think we might have to sign OB with Jonas in order to get contact with the last AI - two hunters with a hawk are far to the west close to a cul-de-sac in Clan culture, but we'll have to see if that's enough. Another hunter with a hawk is heading into Auric's peninsula to explore it.

I managed to obtain Festivals, Masonry, and Cartography in trade. Auric now has Writing, so the other thing to do for Brian is to get a few libraries and start on the Great Library - Jonas already has the tech, but I didn't note any libraries in his cities. No other AI is even close to discovering Trade - noone else has either HBR or Sailing.

Jonas is scary. He just built Syliven's Perfect Lyre, and is at research parity with us. He had a golden age during Brian's turnset, and started another during mine! Among his techs are Elementalism, Construction, and Drama. If it weren't for my tech trading, he'd be ahead of us in beakers (of course, we have plenty of beakers invested in Priesthood too).

I didn't see a need to rush the settler builds as the cities involved were at the happy cap or very close, and we did not have Sailing yet. And focusing on growing cottages means some compromises had to be made.

Yeah, but Sailing was pretty close, and getting started on White earlier would be worthwhile anyway. I managed to mistime things a little, since I realised I had to revolt back to Nationhood+Apprenticeship while building the galleys.

I specifically wanted to work cottages at Bologna to grow them. If we want more commerce in the future, we have to spend turns working those immature cottages sometime.

Agreed. But it's a question about what is good for the city or what is good for the empire as a whole. Great people are one of the good-for-the-empire things that cities have to do sometimes.

I wouldn't have nattered so much about it if you hadn't revolted to Pacifism, but the entire point of using pacifism now and then is to do a GPP push. Otherwise it'd been better to stay in Nationhood (one should be careful with Religion, since that can lock you into the civic due to the happiness bonus).

I didn't name that one.

No, that was me.

Those roads were partly to use worker move-and-do-something turns while waiting for the White settler to be ready. But also a bunch of units had been moving through those tiles north of the river -- we do not have Construction for bridges and crossing the rivers around Paris kills movement. Not high priority but not useless.

The river penalty is why I liked the southern route (ie W-NW from Paris) that way you avoid the river-crossing penalty when going eastwards.

The worker stack is inside our territory and could not be hit by a barbarian without warning.

Sorry, but you're wrong there. If the Illians cast Samhaim you get lots and lots and lots of Frostling spawns, and I did lose Barbara Hambly to one such. And having five uncovered workers right on our borders is just tempting fate - wolf riders are scarily mobile.

Amelanchier has raiders and also elven forest movement -- keeping him out of our territory will not be easy. And Wien has rivers in the BFC and we do not have Construction -- a road there does not benefit our north/south movement much.

Well, a road between Wien south of the river, towards Coimbra and Prague, was very much needed, so our axes in Coimbra could play zone defense.

I built three during my turnset. I agree we can use still more, though, especially with more cities being founded soon.

Yes. I captured one orc worker and got another built, but lost one when Auric cast Samhain, which spawned lots and lots of frostlings. Goblin and frostling wolf riders are nasty. I've lost workers to them earlier, and that's why I reacted like I did to that worker stack right on our border.

[kjn]

I just noticed something in Haphazard's report about being able to trade for wheat. Take it! It's worth another 10% gold in Paris.

Missed that. Up to you, Brian.

And on a more important note I'd like Olaf Stapledon to be inducted into our worker corps at the earliest opportunity.

Go ahead. We're up to M right now, though B was lost.

[Brian Shanahan]

Will get to it. Have a look tomorrow, and play some time Wednesday.

[kjn]

Another thing, for those that might have missed it. I've updated the first post with links to various interesting information (like our city list) and turn reports.

I won't keep it fully synced with the game, but now and then I will add in reports and other interesting posts.

[kjn]

No epic report this time, sorry about that.

Start with microing the cities. I prefer to build settlers and workers as quickly as possible, since it stops growth. Bologna is set to work mainly mines, and build the settler in 6.

Paris picks up cottages. Better to work cottages than the cotton, anyway. Gets a small food surplus.

Oxford will build archers, for garrisons, and so it can grow to 10.

Salamanca will finish its settler next turn. I will probably busybuild a lighthouse there, but focus on commerce and growth, until we go out of pacifism. After that it's navy time. Coimbra hires a merchant and priest - the courthouse isn't urgent.

I consider hiring a merchant or priest in Prague, but hold it off for now. I think I prefer to keep the GP pool pure there, so we are guaranteed a Great Prophet for a shrine for Order of Heaven.

Planning

Salamanca's settler will go for White. Lois Bujold and Alfred Bester will support that settling. An axe and the Guerilla warrior from Oxford will form its initial garrison. The axe can then continue on to Whale.

White will be settled turn 192. It will need a thane, a bear, two workers, and a garrison. Most of this can be fixed, but the thane is an issue.

Bologna's settler will go to Golden. I intend to chop the two remaining forests in Bologna's BFC to speed up one more settler from the city.

We will get the next settler turn 195, and it will arrive to Salamanca turn 196. If we revolt turn 196, and chop the forest in Salamanca, the galley will be finished turn 197. We can settle Golden on turn 200.

We will need another place to build mounted units, apart from Bologna. Oxford gets archers, Salamanca is on navy, Coimbra and Bologna builds melee, so I think the best future option is Prague. It has decent production.

Worker actions

Brian Stableford has a mid-life crisis, and decides that she henceforth shall be known as Barbara Hambly. (Less confusion between Brian and Brian!)

I also nix the road NE from Paris. Better to draw it south of the river, ie E-NE. And there is no need for the road that Alfred Bester builds, 1E of Paris. Units going north can be routed via Bologna.

We have a five-stack or workers between Krakow and Prague. I don't like that, for several reasons. First, it's risks a huge loss if a barbarian comes out of the fog. Second, you will easily lose worker turns. Third, it means you easily overimprove a city while stagnating another. I cover the stack with the hunter and a warrior from Prague.

We still don't have a road SE from Wien towards Coimbra! Instead Diane Duane built an unneeded road between Prague and Coimbra. Remember that Amelanchier has Raiders, so plan the road network (we used to have a painted grid for the road network in-game, but I removed it a while back).

Finished with turn 189.

Turn 190


Salamanca set to grow in 2, while busybuilding Lighthouse. Will build a worker after growth to 10.

The settler is sent towards White.

Lois Bujold will support the builds in Salamanca (worker and galley) by chopping. Alfred goes north and will support White. Barbara roads towards the west. Diane goes to road between Wien, Coimbra, and Prague. Harry is sent to the pig. Charles, George, Fred, and Isaac goes 1N and clears jungle. Next turn they will split up.

The warrior that covered the workers is sent to reinforce the garrison in Krakow. The withered hunter will go northeast and hawk out the land around Hyal.

Sends a bear to Salamanca, intended for Golden, and another towards White, for Whale.

Turn 191

Move units towards Ultigar. We will attack the city next turn.

Harry roads the pigs first, so more workers can join in easily. Charles goes 1E, George and Fred builds a cottage (at least one of them will join Harry to pasture afterwards), and Isaac goes 1N to chop and cottage.

Turn 192

Salamanca grows to 10, and switches to a worker. Lois chops the forest. Wien grows to 4, and picks up another aristofarm. Those improvemnts are sick.

White is settled, and is named Heidelberg. Builds an EC for now.

Ultigar is assaulted!

C4 axe wins! (87%)
CR1 axe wins! (59%)
CR2 horseman wins! (73%)

We pillage 157 gold! Research is increased to 60%, so we can get Writing in 2. I hold off on culture-bombing the city, since it will increase our costs dramatically, and it will get a bear for culture soon. Instead, I spread RoK. Our flanking horseman captures an orc worker, and he is named Lars Jakobson.

Ultigar is renamed to St Andrews, and build is set to a ToK.

Using a hawk from our western scouting group locates a Calabim hunter, but we don't get contact yet.

Turn 193

Not much happens

Turn 194

Contact with Flauros! He has Cartography, and is ready to sign open borders. I hold off for now.

Writing comes in, and Trade is selected. We can have it in 4 turns (50% @ -22).

Micro Salamanca for much overflow into a galley when we revolt out of Pacifism.

Turn 195

Auric completes Samhain! We loses Barbara Hambly, who was roading unprotected on the borders of Paris. Several frostlings assaults our western scouting group, and the experienced hunter is badly wounded. Lots of frostlings in the south too, especially around Prague.

I destroy the frostlings around Prague, and shuffles units to cover Paris, Wien, and our workers better.

Turn 196

Revolt back to Apprenticeship+Nationhood. Micro Salamanca is to build the galley in 2, and Bologna to build a Settler in 7. Heidelberg switches to building a galley.

Turn 197

William Marlander (Great Sage) in Oxford! I save him for now. Main options are probably Golden Age or bulbing Alteration (after getting KotE).

There is an Illian settling party on the way west, probably on the way to the former city of Spilan.

Turn 198

Trade is in, and Flauros demands Archery. I decline. Next tech is set to Priesthood, so we can finish that off and get a few Stonewardens.

I sit down and do a tech analysis:

We are up CoL, HBR, Philosophy, Sailing, and Trade on all the AIs we have contact with (the one AI we haven't met has WotE and Arete). This means we have a lock on Military Strategy, Orders from Heaven, Deception, and Honor.

Turn 199

Flauros asks for OB, and I accept.

I've left several signs on the map as reminders. Of special note:

• There's a frostling wolf rider 2S of Prague, that we should kill.
  
• Isaac Asimov has just finished a cottage, and can take orders.
  
• Mokka is on the gold tile by Golden - that's why I sent the two horsemen south to reinforce its first garrison.
  

Future builds

Heidelberg should probably build a Work Boat for Whale, and can then focus on growing and basic infrastructure. It will probably need a thane soon, unless we want to take it easy with RoK for now (I think it might be time to start thinking about future religions now).

Whale can be founded turn 205, if I get my counts right. Send the axe, the bear, the settler, and a worker in the first wave (with the expanded hull promotion or a skeleton crew), and the archer on a second wave. Or send the bear with the second wave - in that case it should probably go towards the tile 1NE of Bologna ("ferry tile").

The galley can be finished on turn 201 with the chop and working the grass hill cottage and FGH next turn. The settler will be finished turn 203, and can board the galley en route. See signs on map.

Our next wonder target should be the Great Library. I think we should build that in Bologna. I think the three required libraries should be built in Oxford and Coimbra, apart from Bologna (which should build the Great Library itself). Salamanca should finish its lighthouse, and then continue on to the Great Lighthouse (unless we want to build that in Wien).

The library build in Coimbra should be helped with a chop or two, and there is a choppable forest by Oxford too.

Do we want to gun for Aquae Sucellus? It requires Sanitation and Life Mana. Jonas doesn't have Life mana but can research Sanitation. Amelanchier has Life Mana, but is far from Sanitation (no Bronze or Construction). The rest has neither.

Issues

Evermore puts out heavy cultural pressure, probably with a settled Great Artist. What about assigning Oxford as our potential Grand Menagerie city? At least the festival and gorilla cage will make sure it doesn't lose too badly against Evermore.

Do we want OB with the Clan? It would help them at least as much as it would help us. We have a Spider that should be able to get past Jonas land (probably by going between Braduk and Renegade Hill), but then it probably needs to declare nationality to gain contact. And it's invisible too, when it's time to get contact...

An alternative is to send a galley with a hunter to the southwest, but there is no guarantee we can get contact that way, or that the hunter can land somewhere to get a hawk.

[haphazard1]

Thanks for the report, kjn. Good news on conquering St Andrews, I think it will turn out to be well worth the maintenance and garrison we will have to support.

What has Auric done with his giants? If he wants the crummy Spilan location I don't really have any objection to that.

What are our tech trading opportunities now that we have Trade? You mentioned finishing Priesthood -- I hope this means we can grab some techs via trade. Festivals especially would be very helpful for markets, and maybe a carnival or two. Any other opportunities?

For future tech choices, I like Sanitation as a goal for more food from farms and also Public Baths for additional happiness. We should start settling some of the additional luxury resources in the south soon, but more happiness would be very helpful to keep growing our cities. Aquae Sucellus might be interesting if we can spare the hammers for it. Need to look at the overall picture to decide if there are other things we want first, though.

[kjn]

Thanks for the report, kjn. Good news on conquering St Andrews, I think it will turn out to be well worth the maintenance and garrison we will have to support.

Yes, especially having access to incense will be of very high value.

What has Auric done with his giants? If he wants the crummy Spilan location I don't really have any objection to that.

Nothing much yet. He marched them towards Ultiger, but then marched them back towards Tolero once I took the city.

What are our tech trading opportunities now that we have Trade? You mentioned finishing Priesthood -- I hope this means we can grab some techs via trade. Festivals especially would be very helpful for markets, and maybe a carnival or two. Any other opportunities?

I've already taken some of them, and obtained Cartography from Flauros (for Education), and Festivals and Masonry from Auric for Writing (note to Brian: go for some quick libraries in our cities, and start the Great Library ASAP).

The techs that are out there are Construction (Jonas), Drama (Jonas), Elementalism (Jonas), KotE (Jonas), MftD (OO; Amelanchier and Flauros), and WotF (FoL; Amelanchier and Jonas).

For future tech choices, I like Sanitation as a goal for more food from farms and also Public Baths for additional happiness. We should start settling some of the additional luxury resources in the south soon, but more happiness would be very helpful to keep growing our cities. Aquae Sucellus might be interesting if we can spare the hammers for it. Need to look at the overall picture to decide if there are other things we want first, though.

We have a decent chance for a Great Engineer from Coimbra, but as long as Jonas doesn't have Life mana I think Aquae Sucellus won't need it. We have plenty of health right now, anyway. Better to Engineer-rush Guild of Hammers then. There aren't too many really rush-worthy wonders that I can see otherwise.

Yes, the tech targets that I see relatively short-term right now are:

Priesthood - Stonewardens
Sanitation (go via Construction or not?)
Orders from Heaven (requires Way of the Wise)
Military Strategy (for the Great Commander)

I assume we can trade for WotF later on.

Hmmm... regarding our Great Sage - I think we should use him for a Golden Age, but wait until we can adopt Arete+Pacifism (turn 196), for maximum GPP points.

[Brian Shanahan]

As regards rushing wonders, I'd take the Guild of Hammers a long time before the Acquae. I also like rushing the Guild of the Nine. The player knows how to spam out mercs, the AI don't.

Back in a few when I look at the save properly.

Though I do agree on running on the GLib.

[Brian Shanahan]

Ok looking at the save,

First Oxford, Coimbra and Bologna are my three preferred cities as well. I'd like a fourth in Paris too, as that is our best science city as well. A variant within the variant would be to have libraries elsewhere, even in pure production spots.

Second I was looking at the cities and there are a large number where we could use courthouses now, most cities without are well above 4 gpt per city. There are a number of cities coming near the end of builds, so expect a few more courthouses up and running.

Third I put Praha towards hammers without taking it off cottages, doubling the growth time but halving Summer Palace build time. If we're going to colonise the south this will be a key building, and Praha is the best spot by far.

Fourth I like Domir a lot, unfortunately we've not the forces in the area to capture it (well keeping enough to stave off Emo-Boys sneak attack is sensible). I'll hold the horsemen in Golden until it's safely guarded then run them up with a few Axes out of St. Andrews (you do know Scotland isn't yet a country, kjn?) and see if I can take it. I'll probably push up the hunter by St. Andrews to keep an eye on it too, before the push.

Fifth. Bolonga keeps pushing settlers for the south and Oxford Archers to cover them. With 13 workers we should have enough to cover the development, but I may mix in a few more into that out of Bolonga.

Sixth on tech, finish priesthood, run through KotE and bulb Alteration. If I still have time I think we should take Honour, just to begin getting our money's worth out of Dies Diei.