Learning Capria FFH SG

[kjn]

1st Empy: We can three turn it if we turn up research to 60% losing 29 gpt (at 50% we're +8). I like that. That coincides with building the temple in Praha and going priest heavy. It also allows us to build acolytes or priests (forget their names) for spreading purposes. I prefer the priests.

Exactly my thoughts. Get Empy ASAP, and spread it around some, and get the Order shrine built.

We should prioritise Empy temples in science cities (Paris, Oxford, Salamanca, Wien...), and Order temples in production cities (Bologna, St Andrews, Oxford, Coimbra...). FoL temples are more open, but at least Wien (another bard slot is nice, and it will grow large) and probably Coimbra (bard slot).

2nd Isildur: I noticed him hanging out around Praha (probably checking out the local totty, not not casting a certain ring into the depths of Mt. Doom, no sir!). I also see we've the Tower of Eyes available. Want to rush it?
Pros: We're going to war at some stage, free dungeons will help that war
Cons: Opportunity cost, he could rush something else.

Yes, that's one of the options I was thinking about. Free buildings are nice, and so are free promotions. We should probably do it in St Andrews, but it will need to grow to 10 before we rush it (and perhaps putting that turn's production into the Heroic Epic).

The other main option I'm seeing is Temple of Temporance, probably in Wien or Coimbra (which is struggling in its culture battle with Evermore). We won't need mercenaries for unit spam once we have fanaticism and iron working, and we can beeline and slowbuild the Guild of Hammers.

3rd: Heidelburg: I think the plan is keep pumping Acolytes to convert more cities, and if we switch Order priests, correct?

Yes, though once we get order into Bologna Heidelburg should probably go back to normal infrastructure and ships. It doesn't have too much production, and we need to make sure Auric can't take control of the waters around Santo Domingo.

Once the Stonewardens finish, switch out of Arete and go with either Empy or Order. We will take a happiness hit, so you need to be careful with the city management, but we have +2 in each city right now.

We should probably do a switch to FoL for a time, too, so we can get a PoL or two as well.

4th Settlers: I see the Praha settler. What do ye think is the best site? I'm liking Green, but think it may be too much of a reach at the moment. And do we want to hold back for a while with producing more.

Jonas has sailing now - that's partly why I'm building a privateer in Salamanca (so we can get control over the waters around Sushi). Yes, Green will be a stretch, but I think it's doable. We will be severely constrained in worker labour for a while, with all the jungle. We can ferry a worker south from Tlatleleco, however.

Right now we're at 50% breakeven, and with hope of more trade routes soon, and another city on the fur island will make our basic trade routes more valuable. And getting Empy into more cities will also increase income, so I'm pretty sure we can continue to expand, especially as basically every city down there will add another happiness resource (green dyes and Yggdrasil; cyan gems; blue sugar)

6th War: We should look at what we want. Amelanchier looks like a good choice for quick opportunity. He's got the Tower of Complacency and OO holy city, unfortunately no Necronommicon. Interestingy Hyol with Archeron was his third city.

I guess it must've been taken over by some barbs. On the other hand, Amelanchier is a complete non-entity in the game, and it's not like he has any resources that we want either. Real trouble with him is the cultural pressure.

Finally Techs: Stirrups next I think, and after that we might consider Fanaticism (Donal, Paramanders, Crusaders), Religious Law (Chalid, Temple of Temporance) or the magic line (lots of fun). I'm liking RL at the moment, but have no huge preference.

Another option is Engineering: higher road movement, City of a Thousand Slums, and Guild of Hammers (forges without smelting!). We have a bunch of nice tiles around Bologna that we can't use at the moment, so CoaTS would be a nice investment.

Religious Law and Order also gives us Basilicas, which would give us the best economy in the game (where we already outstrip everyone else): 85% (90% once we get the Order shrine) maintenance reduction in cities.

[Brian Shanahan]

Jonas has sailing now - that's partly why I'm building a privateer in Salamanca (so we can get control over the waters around Sushi). Yes, Green will be a stretch, but I think it's doable. We will be severely constrained in worker labour for a while, with all the jungle. We can ferry a worker south from Tlatleleco, however.

Yeah, I just thought you were looking at building a wolf-pack of privateers, just to mess with him. I usually go three per group myself. Protecting sushi is a top idea.

As regards Isildur, unless we get a consensus I'll hold off on using him for now. Let him continue chasing skirt.

[haphazard1]

2nd Isildur: I noticed him hanging out around Praha (probably checking out the local totty, not not casting a certain ring into the depths of Mt. Doom, no sir!). I also see we've the Tower of Eyes available. Want to rush it?
Pros: We're going to war at some stage, free dungeons will help that war
Cons: Opportunity cost, he could rush something else.

I am not familiar with all the possibilities, so I can't really say what would be good for the GE. I believe kjn mentioned a Guild of Hammers rush, which is certainly a strong possibility once we get the tech. I don't know what else might be useful within the next group of techs we are likely to pursue.

4th Settlers: I see the Praha settler. What do ye think is the best site? I'm liking Green, but think it may be too much of a reach at the moment. And do we want to hold back for a while with producing more.

I think we want to push more settlers pretty hard, actually. Jonas has acquired Sailing and might start making a move across those islands to our southern lands. Ours! All ours! No Clan invaders permitted!

Going directly for Green is maybe a bit of a reach, but it may be worth it to get Yggdrasil claimed and other resources hooked up. If not Green, than Cyan followed by Green would be my thought. I would like to see at least one additional settler built in the upcoming turnset, and two would be better. We need to get that land claimed.

Finally Techs: Stirrups next I think, and after that we might consider Fanaticism (Donal, Paramanders, Crusaders), Religious Law (Chalid, Temple of Temporance) or the magic line (lots of fun). I'm liking RL at the moment, but have no huge preference.

I like the idea of KotE to get some adepts going and gaining XP. Ice mana from the conquest of Domir will give us something useful for adepts to do, we will want some mage candidates later, and at this point KotE is a pretty cheap tech. Whether it is worth investing in any of the mana-enabling techs at this point is a separate decision -- they are also not too terribly expensive, but we may want to leave them for later. But at least starting some adepts would be useful, I think.

[kjn]

I am not familiar with all the possibilities, so I can't really say what would be good for the GE. I believe kjn mentioned a Guild of Hammers rush, which is certainly a strong possibility once we get the tech. I don't know what else might be useful within the next group of techs we are likely to pursue.

Putting things in order:

Tower of Eyes: free dungeons (-25% war weariness), Sentry on all units in city; 700H, can be built at once

Guild of Hammers: free forges (+25% production, +1 happy with gold, +1H from engineers); 550H, requires Engineering (5 + 14 turns)

Temple of Temporance: +1 happy in all cities on continent, +10 culture; 650H, requires Religious Law (12 turns)

Guild of the Nine: can hire Mercenaries; 500H

Since noone else has Code of Laws or Priesthood yet, we have a good leg up on the competition to the three latter wonders.

My vote: rush ToE in St Andrews once it grows to 10. It's the most expensive wonder, and the one we can get now. So maybe Empy - Stirrups - Religious Law - Mathematics - Engineering as our tech path.

I'd put ToT in Coimbra and GoH (and CoaTS) in Bologna. If you have hammers to spare for GotN, then by all means go for it, but IMO Demagogs are better for unit spamming.

Going directly for Green is maybe a bit of a reach, but it may be worth it to get Yggdrasil claimed and other resources hooked up. If not Green, than Cyan followed by Green would be my thought. I would like to see at least one additional settler built in the upcoming turnset, and two would be better. We need to get that land claimed.

We should also look for an additional settler for the northeast island. Bologna can build one instead of dumping hammers into Aquae Sucellus. We have most everything we need in place already on the island (ferry galley, garrison and a worker).

I like the idea of KotE to get some adepts going and gaining XP. Ice mana from the conquest of Domir will give us something useful for adepts to do, we will want some mage candidates later, and at this point KotE is a pretty cheap tech. Whether it is worth investing in any of the mana-enabling techs at this point is a separate decision -- they are also not too terribly expensive, but we may want to leave them for later. But at least starting some adepts would be useful, I think.

Yes, adepts are good, but I'd like to have some XP-civics and buildings in place before we build them. Though I think I'd like to push our tech advantage forward first, and look if mystery civ gives some new trading opportunities.

Adepts would also be more support units for us - the main effort should be Horse Archers and Demagogs. And we should build a Siege Workshop or two somewhere.

BTW Brian - Amelanchier is quite backwards and has a load of cash. We can sell him Cartography and Masonry for quite a bit of money.

[Brian Shanahan]

Nice pick up on Amel having money. I'll divest him of it first chance I get (probably this evening).

Yeah I'll rush the Tower of Eyes in St. Andrews. Islidur gets his order to move. Soon he'll be only looking at ugly Germano-Greeks.

So that's it then.

[Brian Shanahan]

I stopped at the start of turn 239 because of unforseen circumstances.

Auric has declared war. we've also got 20 turns of stasis on the board.

Have fun.

Report shortly.

[Brian Shanahan]

229:
Insert Settler Bolonga, worker Kraków.
Science to 60%

230:
Take Domir, wb was used. No losses.
Market for now.
Finally remember that I have to part a fool from his money:

I also sold him CoL for c 150 gold.

231:
Spot this:

Turns out to be a false alarm.
Pop the pyre. Unfortunately it gives an assassin, who kills the spider IBT. My bad, sorry. Also it didn't even get rid of the shagging thing.

232
Honour>Maths>Eng
Prague builds the Empy Temple. The free Ecclesiastic goes to Oxford (and later fails)
Science goes back to 50% (@-3gpt)

233
Coimbra GoNine. The culture would be nice and there's nothing more pressing atm.
Wien Carny.
St. Andrews Archer.

234
Basel Courthouse (comes out better than market)
Empy fails in Oxford as above. (though to compensate we did get 3 acolyte spreads of Order and a Leaves spread along with many randoms during the set).

235
Met Eithne

Traded as follows:

Also gave her horse for iron, which turned out to be inspired.
Found Torrolerial in the Ygga spot (no mood for name changes today sorry).

236
Maths>Eng
We can build the Bazaar in Paris (but will need a big change in focus). Elsewhere may be better.
St Andrews Temple of Leaves.
Tlat Harbour (enough trade routes)
Gave Flauros the crabs:

238
Oxford Archer.
Found Vallus, on island, monument.

239

Salamanca Market
Wien Empy temple.
Stasis.
Warning:
Up north there is not much, just some Javelin Throwers. The forces in St. Andrews should be enough for now.
Down South is different. I stopped up at the start of the turn to give a proper chance to Kjn to defend (well attack really), so there are workers moving to Torrolerial and roading. They need to be stopped, there are also stray hunters down south belonging to Auric so be careful on them.

Thoughts for future: Smash Auric, after stasis. Before, defend cleverly knock him down abit.

Save is in last post.

[kjn]

I think it's Haphazard's that up, not me. The next turnset will in one way be easier, since we don't have to manage builds, but you will have to conserve our forces so we don't lose literally irreplaceable units.

We can still do diplo - good that you managed to get us iron first! And change civics and religions too, I believe. And upgrade units. Pity you didn't do stirrups first, it'd have been handy to upgrade our horsemen to HAs. OTOH, we do have the elephants and techs to sell for upgrade money in a pinch.

Not sure markets are cost-efficient builds anymore, even in new cities.

And I have no idea how popping lairs with hidden nationality units would work, especially since we don't have OB with Auric.

Haph - if you think you're up to it you can probably do the entire stasis (20 turns).

[haphazard1]

Auric declaring and popping Stasis...wonderful. The guy's ego is so big he thinks he should be a god, but I think we can handle him. He can't conquer us in 20 turns, and we will crush him after that. One big worry is diplo: is Auric likely to be able to convince anyone else to join his war against us? If Jonas joins Auric we will be in very serious trouble.

Exactly what is and is not affected by Stasis? I am assuming that existing units can move and act as normal, but no city produces anything -- culture, beakers, gold, hammers, GPP, etc. Am I correct that cities do not grow or starve -- their food situation is frozen? What about barbs -- do fresh barbs continue to spawn during Stasis?

Plans for my turnset: well, play defense is about it. I guess I can try to make some progress with workers and continue caravel exploration, just have to keep them safe. Otherwise there is not much I can do.

How much of an army does Auric have? I presume he still has Larry, Curly, and Moe somewhere. Quite a few javelin throwers last time I looked, but mostly assigned as garrisons so most of them should not be coming after us. Does he have the Priests of Winter? Or adepts? I will keep an eye on the south and other areas -- since we had OB Auric had moved units through our territory so they could pop back from several directions.

Has cancellation of OB with Auric cut trade connections with Jonas, Flauros, etc.?

Can we change civics during Stasis? No immediate effect, but if we have a different set of civics we would like to be in once Stasis is over there is no reason not to make a change early enough for the 10 turn delay to finish.

I will aim to play the full period of Stasis unless it looks like we will have problems holding our cities, or if someone else joins the war.

[kjn]

Ok. Some notes on what we should do next:

Cancel all worker orders, and note progression. We need to (a) keep them alive, (b) have them available for roading for our forces, © clear jungle once it's safe.

There is an Illian hunter down south, between Uppsala and Torro, that must be killed, so our workers can get to connect our cities and clear jungle.

We have two Stonewardens in Coimbra. One of them should heal our withered hunter in Praha ASAP. The other one should probably go north.

Switch forces north towards Auric. Send both privateers to control the waters between Santo Domingo and Gostai. One of the Stonewardens in Coimbra should go north. We can probably shift 2 or 3 axemen north too, from Oxford, Wien, and Coimbra. The two hunters on the borders to Jonas should get to St Andrews ASAP.

That means we can skip the monument in Vallus, and use a disciple instead, once we come out from stasis. Whatever religion we will use next works. Monuments, ECs, or Markets aren't that hot builds anymore.

The peninsula north of Domir has a wolf and oodles of bears! That means we are only a PoL away from the Grand Menagerie in Oxford, but we will need to get a hunter there (probably by chopping a galley in Domir), and hawk support from Domir, since the peninsula looks quite cramped with units.

Get the hawks to Heidelberg (to scout out Auric) and Domir (to check the peninsula to its north).

Look at upgrading at least one of our mammoths to a War Elephant. The C2 one is probably the best option.

Salamanca should build a courthouse instead of the market.

We can probably take Sopor with the forces we have available, if we can get them reasonably concentrated.

Pity you didn't switch to Order or Empy, and managed to get one or more priests out. Having even a single Confessor would be very handy right now. Ditto for Stirrups before Mathematics. But we should manage. Auric has no counter to our veteran iron axes with Stonewarden support.