The Haunted Forest: Mardoc puts the Sidar to the test.

[Mardoc]

"though this be madness, yet there is a method in it"


Here's a mad thought for you: Have you considered building The Prophecy of Ragnarok in Pacman?

+2 Priest GPPs would be nice and Blight will seriously hurt Bob with his huge cities.

Um. Hadn't, no. You sure it would hurt him even with all those forests?

I'll admit, it would synergize pretty well with a Stigmata in the Shrine/Heroic Epic city . But it's a lot of hammers!

[Mardoc]

In any event, though, Ragnarok can wait. We're trusting in the werewolf population for the moment, building markets everywhere.



Meanwhile - dang, but I certainly wish for the Beastmasters to be here!

That's Ellimist's core - defended by Angels, Basium, and a couple PoL - spread out all over the place. Perfect target for some attrition - if only I had the beastmasters here. Well, I'm working to concentrate them; Myrean will fall in 1-2 turns, Ahrpetr already fell, and the wolves keep spreading out. Soon we can start messing with these fellows.

[Mardoc]

T170:

I had a new Blooded werewolf right next to a barrow, and I figured why not:




In other news...there isn't much other news, really. Especially when my pillow is calling . Ellimist has gotten Basium out of sight somewhere, has Angels prowling the wilderness fighting barbs. We got 2 more Ravenous conversions, and replaced them with new Ravenous wolves, so the WW bubble is feeling a bit better now.

Oh, and I finished taking Myrean. 3 workers came with the city, and we took it with mostly werewolves, so can afford to leave it to its own devices in defense. Beastmasters to the front(s)!

Oh, actually one piece of real news - I saw an adept in Basium's lands making a Mind node. Our clock is definitely ticking on the Towers.

[Thoth]

T170:

I had a new Blooded werewolf right next to a barrow, and I figured why not:

Holy shit!

We have math and Construction.....how long would it take to get to Engineering?

GOH would be awfully nice to have.

Oh, actually one piece of real news - I saw an adept in Basium's lands making a Mind node. Our clock is definitely ticking on the Towers.

Yeah, need to gather up the troops and come up with a coherent war plan asap....

[Mardoc]

Holy shit!

We have math and Construction.....how long would it take to get to Engineering?

GOH would be awfully nice to have.

It would be nice, yes. I think we ought to get Sorcery first, though. As part of:

Yeah, need to gather up the troops and come up with a coherent war plan asap....

Plus, of course, he's got a bit of a hike back to civilization. And those wolves might just get hungry .

As for a plan - we're nearly to Hawk production. I'm working on gathering the recon units together, they'll carry us for the initial stages. Now that our wolf population is above 20, I'm almost happy with it being sufficient to garrison our cities against the barbs .

I think the first stage should be essentially be picking off targets of opportunity and forcing Bob/Ellimist to stack up, using Recon units only. At the moment, I'm actually not convinced Bob has a main stack anymore, given the 3 priests here, 3 there groupings that I've seen. But with Hawks, we ought to at least avoid being surprised.

As we can, we add in horses to that, to pillage and make them consider opening the stacks back up.

Then we bring a wave of wolves and Ritualists, to punish them for stacking . We're nearly to full barb coverage on the wolves, which means we'll be generating a surplus very soon.

I think our initial focus ought to be Ellimist, honestly - he's the weakest he'll ever be, and he can't March the trees. Either that, or take advantage of our mobility, and swap focus constantly. In any case - they have a dramatic hammer advantage. We therefore need to be killing their hammer-intensive forces without taking significant casualties. In particular, I want to kill Priests and Angels - priests are a ton of hammers for a weak unit in the end, and Angels need to have their XP kept low .

Plus, we need to come up with a sacrifical force that's none-the-less scary enough to force the March. Any thoughts there?

[Mardoc]

Dang it!


I look away for one instant, and the road is gone .

I've been migrating troops to the east, anyway, but apparently I moved too many too far. I have a worker en route, and some extra guards, too.

I'm also thinking we need to finish the road in the north, so we have a redundant system.

In better news, we have a replacement Greater Werewolf . And a couple new Ravenous ones.

[Thoth]

It would be nice, yes. I think we ought to get Sorcery first, though. As part of:

Yeah, I think you're right. Do we have a plan for getting our Recon units assembled to get Poisoned Blades once Sorcery is in? Or are you figuring on hitting Ellimist before then?

Plus, of course, he's got a bit of a hike back to civilization. And those wolves might just get hungry .

Yeah....hopefully he'll make it back alive. :fingerscrossed:

As for a plan - we're nearly to Hawk production.

?? Haven't looked at either of the current saves, but memory says we finished up a Hunting Lodge in Asteroids a couple of turns ago.

Remember, Hawks are not considered Military Units so Asteroids can grow while building them.

I think the first stage should be essentially be picking off targets of opportunity and forcing Bob/Ellimist to stack up, using Recon units only. At the moment, I'm actually not convinced Bob has a main stack anymore, given the 3 priests here, 3 there groupings that I've seen. But with Hawks, we ought to at least avoid being surprised.

As we can, we add in horses to that, to pillage and make them consider opening the stacks back up.

Then we bring a wave of wolves and Ritualists, to punish them for stacking . We're nearly to full barb coverage on the wolves, which means we'll be generating a surplus very soon.

I think our initial focus ought to be Ellimist, honestly - he's the weakest he'll ever be, and he can't March the trees. Either that, or take advantage of our mobility, and swap focus constantly. In any case - they have a dramatic hammer advantage. We therefore need to be killing their hammer-intensive forces without taking significant casualties. In particular, I want to kill Priests and Angels - priests are a ton of hammers for a weak unit in the end, and Angels need to have their XP kept low .

Definitely agreed that getting Ellimist eliminated is essential. *ALL* of our recon units are RoK.....every time one of them dies he gets a free Angel.

Plus, we need to come up with a sacrifical force that's none-the-less scary enough to force the March. Any thoughts there?

I'm not all that worried about MoT to be honest. Bob's relying on his Ancient Forests for food, health and happyness. If we can threaten him enough to make him trip MotT then he'll be faced with starving, unhappy cities. And if he does trip the MotT it would be awfully nice to have the AC within striking range of Blight.

Can we afford the time to build enough Ritualists to build AV temples in all our cities?


(after playing as an OCC for so long the phrase "all our cities" has a rather nice ring to it. )

Dang it!

I look away for one instant, and the road is gone .

*cough*

Yeah, we want a minimum of two WWs patrolling that road at all times (preferably with a Ritualist in support for healing and the occasional ROF)

I've been migrating troops to the east, anyway, but apparently I moved too many too far. I have a worker en route, and some extra guards, too.

I'm also thinking we need to finish the road in the north, so we have a redundant system.

Yeah, a backup road connection would be handy.

In better news, we have a replacement Greater Werewolf . And a couple new Ravenous ones.

Cool.

What's the total WW population up to?

[Mardoc]

Yeah, I think you're right. Do we have a plan for getting our Recon units assembled to get Poisoned Blades once Sorcery is in? Or are you figuring on hitting Ellimist before then?

Plans? What are these?

Actually, this was a good reminder to start on a Mage Guild in Serdoaland; we have a 10 XP adept hanging out there and in Pacman, but it would have been awkward in a few turns trying to upgrade without a Guild. Also put the Adept to Naturifying our node this turn.

?? Haven't looked at either of the current saves, but memory says we finished up a Hunting Lodge in Asteroids a couple of turns ago.

Remember, Hawks are not considered Military Units so Asteroids can grow while building them.

Finished with too much overflow, so I dumped the excess into a Granary. Then built a Hawk, too much overflow so we're finishing the Granary this turn. Hawk again next turn.

I'm not all that worried about MoT to be honest. Bob's relying on his Ancient Forests for food, health and happyness. If we can threaten him enough to make him trip MotT then he'll be faced with starving, unhappy cities. And if he does trip the MotT it would be awfully nice to have the AC within striking range of Blight.

Eh? New forests don't give happiness? If you're right about all this - maybe we want to trip the March regardless, just to gimp Bob's production of everything.

Can we afford the time to build enough Ritualists to build AV temples in all our cities?

(after playing as an OCC for so long the phrase "all our cities" has a rather nice ring to it. )

Um. I think I will wait until Sorcery is in before going on the offensive, so...maybe not all, but several, certainly.

What's the total WW population up to?

Actually, my main concern at the moment is that our gold seems to be in freefall. I definitely need to get a few Wanabes out fighting with the wolves, to counteract that trend. It's amazing - 6 build queues now, and I still can't find room for some Wanables in them .

It appears that WW's can't wane, so I'm half tempted to grab our good units. Won't, not unless we get desperate, but dang if our military isn't expensive!

It appears that Basium is feeding all his gpt to Bob for boosting research .

I may save a Ritualist or few for Waning, rather than turning them into temples. +1 happy/+2 beakers is nice, but it's peanuts compared to the ~+20 gpt we get from settling a Merchant in Pacman. Assuming, of course, that Unholy Taint does make a noticeable difference in their XP-gain rate.

[Thoth]

Plans? What are these?

They're them thingies where you plot out your city builds and unit moves ahead of time to ensure that you have enough force at the schwerpunkt.

They take a bit of time, but they do tend to pay off in the end.

Actually, this was a good reminder to start on a Mage Guild in Serdoaland; we have a 10 XP adept hanging out there and in Pacman, but it would have been awkward in a few turns trying to upgrade without a Guild. Also put the Adept to Naturifying our node this turn.

We don't actually need the Mage guild unless you are planning on building more Adepts in Serdoia. Mage (and ArchMage) upgrades simply require the unit to be in our territory (plus gold)

Finished with too much overflow, so I dumped the excess into a Granary. Then built a Hawk, too much overflow so we're finishing the Granary this turn. Hawk again next turn.

Sounds good.

Eh? New forests don't give happiness? If you're right about all this - maybe we want to trip the March regardless, just to gimp Bob's production of everything.

Each Forest/Ancient Forest gives +1 happy with the Guardian of Nature civic. New Forests do not. Bob's high pop is due to his running GoN.

Actually, my main concern at the moment is that our gold seems to be in freefall. I definitely need to get a few Wanabes out fighting with the wolves, to counteract that trend. It's amazing - 6 build queues now, and I still can't find room for some Wanables in them .

WW pop looks good.

I woudn't bother with Wanables at this point....a few Sanitation fueled Merchant Specialists (at 4 gpt each) would help with the gold situation, as would a few Courthouses. As much as I hate building non-Org CHs, our city expenses are up around 12 gpt + Inflation in Serdoia. A CH would save ~7 gpt net in each of those cities. Not sure if we can afford the hammers though.

Remember, every exp that goes to a Wane is an exp that could have gone for a Combat unit.

It appears that WW's can't wane, so I'm half tempted to grab our good units. Won't, not unless we get desperate, but dang if our military isn't expensive!

Then lets put that military to use.

It appears that Basium is feeding all his gpt to Bob for boosting research .

Makes some sense....though IIRC, Bob had a pair of GS's waiting in the wings that could have gone for an Academy in Ellimist's cap....OTOH...they've got the same upkeep troubles we do.

I may save a Ritualist or few for Waning, rather than turning them into temples. +1 happy/+2 beakers is nice, but it's peanuts compared to the ~+20 gpt we get from settling a Merchant in Pacman. Assuming, of course, that Unholy Taint does make a noticeable difference in their XP-gain rate.

IIRC, Unholy Taint adds 10% to the chance of gaining an exp per turn. +1 happy/+2 beakers and +1 to the AC plus the ability to build Ritualists and DCs in the city. Oh yeah. That's worth more than a maybe Wane in 15 turns.

The question is, can we afford to spread vs having the boots on the ground now? I think the answer is yes. Having multiple cities pushing out Ritualitsts and DCs is better than only one or two.


I'll have a close look at t173 once it comes in and see if I can offer some more concrete advice.

[Mardoc]

We don't actually need the Mage guild unless you are planning on building more Adepts in Serdoia. Mage (and ArchMage) upgrades simply require the unit to be in our territory (plus gold)

Oh, even better. Will probably abort the 2nd mage guild, then, in favor of axemen and horsemen.

IIRC, Unholy Taint adds 10% to the chance of gaining an exp per turn. +1 happy/+2 beakers and +1 to the AC plus the ability to build Ritualists and DCs in the city. Oh yeah. That's worth more than a maybe Wane in 15 turns.

The question is, can we afford to spread vs having the boots on the ground now? I think the answer is yes. Having multiple cities pushing out Ritualitsts and DCs is better than only one or two.

DC's? Really? They're slow....

I'd much rather use Rangers and Werewolves

As for waning Ritualists - looks like you're right on Unholy Taint. And Channelling II is 30%. So Ritualists have 40%/turn - only EitB adjusts that to the good because of Quick, making it essentially 60%/turn. Starting with 7 XP, that means a Ritualist can wane in about oh...15 turns, as you said .

Plus they are boots on the ground, now, and aren't committed to anything until we're ready to use them.

That said, I'll probably spread to at least the big cities. Really the best answer for handling the Ritualist debate is to have them coming out our ears. Make enough for all purposes, Wane and collateral and spreading .

Makes me regret growing Asteroids the past few turns, I probably would be happier with 4 ritualists on hand than the market and gambling house I ended up with.

I do think we need some Wanes. I really do. I don't want to have to even think about 'do we kill that last defender and risk paying maintenance on this city' or anything along those lines. And we're back down to 40-50% slider for breakeven - I really really don't want to have to think about strikes or disbanding military.