Werewolf 12: Game Thread

[Tasunke]

First of all, what's the point of going against Rowain now, when there is no proof of a second pack? He was one of the main MNG lynchers...
MNG seemed quite desperate to pile votes against Bigger and Tasunke.
.....
The point of this message was that I doubt the following persons belong to the white wolf pack: Rowain, Bigger, Sareln, Injera, Tasunke. Lewwyn was also going against MNG quite hard.

This seems to indicate a Bigger that is at least not in the White Wolf pack (theoretically), then again people mention MNG’s “late” vote for Bigger as an attempt to give Bigger some cover. Worth looking into at least.

hmm, I haste to see a vig role go early, esp in the hands of uberfish. Ah well. lucky wolves .

Freudian slip? “I haste to see a vig role go” … and lucky wolves could either mean patting his own back, or semi-congratulating the other team. Semi-,because the  could also be indicative of his worry about the other team’s skill? Not sure.
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Now with Bigger’s latest reveal (and roleclaim), he makes the argument that he is a Voyuer. Basically a watcher, but with less info gathering and able to cast each night.
Do I think it is possible that there are 2 watchers with the same alignment? Not really, which makes me think he is a wolf.
But even so, I think if left alive a bit longer he could give us some really good information,Especially since he can use his power every night.

So is he telling the truth? I’m not sure. I am leaning towards “probably not” but since his is a weaker role with less limitations, it’s still within the realm of possibility.
Therefore I am leaning towards being against a Bigger lynch today.

[Bigger]

the voyeur is like a watcher, only weaker. I could see what actions were performed TO Gaspar (not by him), but I could not see who did them. So I know Gaspar was investigated, but I do not know who investigated him. It is a weak power, but I guess that compensated a bit by the fact that I have unlimited uses.

As for why I chose Gaspar, that's easy. He had some suspicion on him, but was not clear scum. I did not think he was scum, but others did. It wouldn't do me any good to "voyeur" someone who is clearly innocent. If I had watched uber I would have gotten back "Uberfish was night killed." I wouldn't known by who, and then Noble would have posted that in the thread, so so what? If I watched someopne who i thought was clear wolf in my mind, I don't think I could have gotten any useful info either.

To be clear, I am not told who performs actions, just that actions were performed against my target. I suppose a third option I didn't think of is that Gaspar was investigated by another voyeur, and we both got the same result.

I am not sure who I could have investigated that would have given me more useful results, to be honest. I may have to read the mafia wiki again to see recommended strategy for voyeur abilities.

[Bigger]

WW7 was a game were the wolves got a perfect victory.

ok, then it is the one I read. I am just misremembering Uberfish being the GM. Who was the GM of that game?

[Catwalk]

Tasunke, there is no problem with having a watcher and a voyeur in the same game. It's been fairly common to have roles that are similar in function and complement each other.

[Tasunke]

I suppose a third option I didn't think of is that Gaspar was investigated by another voyeur, and we both got the same result.

I highly doubt there would be two voyeurs unless they were of differing alignments.

I guess I could see Town Watcher, W1 Voyeur, and W2 Voyeur,

or possibly

Town Watcher, Town Voyeur, Wx Voyeur.

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Other than this, I think what is perhaps more likely is Town Watcher and Wx Voyeur ...

Still, assuming it was a Seer that spotted Gaspar, we have no way of knowing what result that Seer got. Maybe he didn't want to say anything after Gaspar's "psuedo reveal" that he was going to let himself get mod killed.

But for now, the most likely of scenarios is that someone either Seered or Baned Gaspar ... (maybe even Roleblock, but unlikely).

And the most likely of those is Seer, and the most likely result of Seer who Saw Gaspar saying nothing means an innocent Gaspar.

But this all hinges on you actually being a Voyeur.

[Mardoc]

ok, then it is the one I read. I am just misremembering Uberfish being the GM. Who was the GM of that game?

That one was mine.

[Tasunke]

crossposted with catwalk

[Mardoc]

Tasunke, there is no problem with having a watcher and a voyeur in the same game. It's been fairly common to have roles that are similar in function and complement each other.

Especially if the 'watcher' is a weakened version, which you've already claimed, Tasunke.

[Bigger]

Alright, maybe we do have two wolf tribes, or more. 2 announcers is a bit too much to ignore.

With this in mind, my earlier post doesn't really tell who is a wolf, but rather who might not be in the white pack.

Rowain makes a good case against Bigger. What bothers me regarding him is that there's quite a lot of "Hey, I'm a villager!" posts coming from him. He also quickly gave big praises of my post that suggested that he doesn't belong to same pack with MNG. There wasn't much more on his post, just "Hey look I'm innocent! Whippee!!" :D

He said against Zak: "I'm not sure if you could have gotten Tasunke lynched before his reveal, but there's no way you could have gotten him lynched after his reveal."

As Zak pointed out, he voted before the reveal. Also against Zak:

"The whole point of lynching MNG, for me, was to get clarification on zakalwe. If MNG had been town, I would be looking suspiciously at Rowain and ignoring Zakalwe. But he was not town, so I think we need to lynch Zakalwe. He's just too dangerous as a wolf to leave alive for long."

Not sure I follow. Why MNG wolf = Zak wolf? Simply because MNG's first vote? Thats quite weak. Maybe you are simply trying to encourage Rowain to continue his Zak pursuit

To me this line against Serdoa sounds really scummy:

Come now Serdona - targetting me didn't work for MNG, why would you assume it will work for your tribe?
I think there is enough suspicion on you for me not to be afraid of your accusations, but for the sake of clarification, and the realk villagers reading this:

Bigger

not sure really how that last comment comes off as scummy. Cocky, yes, which was probably a mistake. But cockiness for a new player is not evidence of a wolf. If I was wolf, I would be deffering to a veteran wolf and running things by him before I post. As a villager, I have no such luxury, and no one stopping me from making mistakes. cockiness in a new player should be a village tell, imo.

I'll admit I might haver relied on Rowain's argument a bit too much. But the logic seems valid to me. Zakalwe has a habit of going after those who target him (and it seems to me his targetting me is nothing more than that). Yet he didn't respond to MNG's accusations of him that way. Further MNG likely knew this and targetted him anyway, and with impunity. Suspicious. imo, the tide had already turned on MNG when Zak voted for him. Uberfish had switched to MNG (5 votes) - I hadn't, but Zak is smart enough to realize my comments to him were going to be followed soon by a switch to MNG (6). Further, I beleive there were some that attacked him early that hadn't voted for him yet (I could be wrong, don't have time to reread day 1 right now).

Anyway, if you still suspect me, fine. But I do feel like the evidence against commodore is much stronger, and you lose nothing by saving my lynch for another day. At the very least I will have a chance to use my power one more time, and possibly get some information.

[Meiz]

Then again, what use is Voyer to the wolves? They are hunting the baner, not who the baner protected.