Werewolf 12: Game Thread

[Tasunke]

Especially if the 'watcher' is a weakened version, which you've already claimed, Tasunke.

but since his is a weaker role with less limitations, it’s still within the realm of possibility.

Which is what I kind of said at the end of that post ... >.>

[Tasunke]

Anyways, I don't see myself being too much more active between now and lynch, but it may well happen.

In summary of my thoughts, I see these trends:

Bigger wants to lynch Zakalwe, has been fairly active, and claimed Voyeur. Bigger wants to clear Gaspar.

Commodore wants/wanted to lynch Gaspar.

they both (obviously) want to lynch each other due to being tied-ish for the top.

Unfortunately, I don't see how the guilt of one necessarily affects the guilt of the other, so I hope that we will have more sources of information rather than just the lynch.

This being said, due to Voyeur role, I think I am inclined towards a lynching of Commodore.

[Ichabod]

You know what strikes me out of all this Ichabod? It's that you don't even attempt a single word to refute my accusations against you: of you trying to divert attention from MNG on day one, or MNG trying to dismiss Sareln saying he wants to push you as a day 1 target. Instead you just attack the person who's on to you and then say you're not in the mood so you can't post more. Need some more time to come up with a defense?

I'm sorry if you're really a villager Ichabod and I've somehow just managed to piss you off, but your post only left me more convinced that I'm on to something.

Sorry, Pindicator, I can't refute your accusations. You think I'm a wolf, which I'm not, and you are molding every one of my posts to what you have already decided. Not that I'm mad or anything, guess everybody plays this game more and less this way.

What can I say is the following: trying to divert attention from MNG would be stupid as a wolf, because he was already dead, like I've said. I wasn't diverting attention. I believed there was a reasonable chance of MNG being a villager that was playing in a suspicious way (which seemed similar to previous plays by MNG) and I wanted to pursue other targets. That's it. Or you can think I used a double-feint by voting MNG then unvoting him to setup the lynch on you.

FWIW, while I would say uber is universally respected by the WW community here and is regarded as a strong wolf, he's pretty much never survived long enough as a villager to be regarded as a strong villager. Typically the early kills have little to nothing to do with player skill of the deceased. They're either fishing for strong power roles (baner, seer-like roles, etc) or aiming for safe kills - this player is unlikely to be protected. While I agree with zak's assessment that uber read village on day 1, I don't know that there was an obvious baner protect so I don't know if he was a dangerous kill per se. Nonetheless, I don't think there's a lot to read into the target.

I disagree and I think you'd know better, especially after we deviated from the Seer/Baner power-role setups.

No, actually I was about to answer you earlier (right after your responded to my post), but at the time it seemed like just Serdoa, Novice, and you were asking. (that is when I instead saved the post)

After Gaspar (and Bigger) joined in, and comments by others (including Sareln) it seemed clear that, even if it was a wolf ploy, my choice of Sareln was deemed so bad, so idiotic and poor, that people were just wondering "what the hell I was thinking" instead of asking for any kind of process.

I guess some of it had to do with my own bias.

I mean voting for Ichabod and then for Mr. Nice Guy was rather parallel to my own thoughts.

I guess it wasn't much, but for Day 1 I thought it was enough to go on. That being said, if I had the time to follow the thread for the entirety of Day 1, I would have tried to get better reads on what other people were thinking as well.

I was thinking that Tasunke following Sareln made more sense as a wolf watcher fishing for power-roles. But then there's this: why would a power-role target Sareln?

And Tasunke's answer is actually interesting: he watched the guy who voted with him on day 1. So, yeah, I guess it makes sense that he thought he was innocent...

[Bigger]

well I have to go now. Gotta get my rental back to Thrifty. I'll try to get back on before lynch, but there's a good chance I won't be able too.

I hope I'm still alive when I come back. I presented the best defense I am able. I am village, but my possible lynch should give the village information, so that isn't too bad. If I am lynched, I hope the village will gleam this:

Gaspar is PROBABLY innocent.

commodore, Zak, and Serdoa should have targets on their back (the latter two for engineering the vote against me, the former for just general scummy behavior).

Good luck everyone.

[Mardoc]

Then again, what use is Voyer to the wolves? They are hunting the baner, not who the baner protected.

I wish I had a better feel for NobleHelium, whether he'd take that into account when passing out roles, or not. The main use of a Voyeur to me seems to be confirming other power roles, and that's something that would likely only benefit the town (since the wolves can always just lie).

But if he assigned roles before factions, then it wouldn't matter.

Still...No Vote

[novice]

Regarding roles, it seems like each werewolf pack has an announcer. Maybe the packs have mirrored roles, seems like an easy way to balance them. Since Voyeur seems like a useless wolf role, maybe the wolves have gimped watchers. What do you think, Tasunke?

[Rowain]

Then again, what use is Voyer to the wolves? They are hunting the baner, not who the baner protected.

Acording to Mafia-wiki

As a scum role, Voyeur can be used to determine what power roles are in the game, and perhaps by considering who would have that power role used on them identify who the power role is.

[Serdoa]

Well, I don't believe his whole reveal tbh. Especially those "unlimited usages" don't sit well with me. I have the feeling that all roles in this game do have some kind of limit (heck, even the announcer had and that seems even weaker then a voyeur).

If I was wolf, I would be deffering to a veteran wolf and running things by him before I post. As a villager, I have no such luxury, and no one stopping me from making mistakes. cockiness in a new player should be a village tell, imo.

"What I have done should tell you that I am village." - Didn't we have that already Bigger and weren't you informed that it does not make you look more villagerish if you TELL us that you are a villager. Act like one, thats much more helpful.

I'll admit I might haver relied on Rowain's argument a bit too much. But the logic seems valid to me. Zakalwe has a habit of going after those who target him (and it seems to me his targetting me is nothing more than that).

I'm not sure on zak (might very well be a wolf not of your pack) but thats wrong. He has a habit to target those who go after him with weak arguments and who have made some scum-tells themselves. Thats a big difference.

Yet he didn't respond to MNG's accusations of him that way. Further MNG likely knew this and targetted him anyway, and with impunity. Suspicious.

You are again restating what Rowain came up with at the start of the game. Can you please show me the impunity MNG targetted zak with?

imo, the tide had already turned on MNG when Zak voted for him. Uberfish had switched to MNG (5 votes) - I hadn't, but Zak is smart enough to realize my comments to him were going to be followed soon by a switch to MNG (6).

So, zak is smart enough to read your brain? I think you really give him too much credit. zak is certainly a good player, but to say he should have known what a completely new player who didn't even have much time to introduce himself would do is asked a little bit much imo.

Further, I beleive there were some that attacked him early that hadn't voted for him yet (I could be wrong, don't have time to reread day 1 right now).

Anyway, if you still suspect me, fine. But I do feel like the evidence against commodore is much stronger, and you lose nothing by saving my lynch for another day. At the very least I will have a chance to use my power one more time, and possibly get some information.

The evidence against Commodore is the same as against you. You both incriminate yourself, you both don't play for the village and you both TALK but don't act. At least not in a way to help the village.

[Sareln]

Giving the thread a quick read, I think we should follow through and lynch Commodore today. Claimed roles from Bigger and Tasunke (however inartfully used) can be tested. If either is a wolf, they're stuck for the rest of the game using their claimed powers in ++village mode or run the risk of getting caught out in the lie. I feel a lot better about Ichabod now that he's started playing.

[Rowain]

Yeah I'm waiting for commodore to claim

Till now we have a watcher who sees Selrahc everywhere. A thing that can easily stem from inventing things on the fly (as catwalk pointed out)

OTOH we have a Voyeur which can well be scum too but in his last posts sounded more villagerish than before.