I disagree with this. It's stronger than both baner and tracker, and probably the strongest role claimed or revealed so far. Just consider, which would you prefer as a wolf: having your night kill thwarted by a baner, or being caught red-handed by a watcher?
zakalwe Wrote:I thought Uberfish was clearly innocent, but I also thought it was surprising that the wolves risked killing him.
This also got me thinking. Perhaps one of the reasons that they risked it was that they didn't fear the watcher?
Mardoc Wrote:Ichabod, you still haven't addressed the question of why, if I'm a wolf, I stick my hand into the hornet's nest to attack you?
I don't know. You had already voted for me before that, I was receiving a lot of votes too. It doesn't seem suicide to had voted for me on that specific time.
And while I was getting heat, Commodore was getting even more. So taking the chance to lynch me would be great, assuming you are a white wolf who thought I was on team black. If I was killed, Commodore was still going to be killed after me.
zakalwe Wrote:I disagree with this. It's stronger than both baner and tracker, and probably the strongest role claimed or revealed so far. Just consider, which would you prefer as a wolf: having your night kill thwarted by a baner, or being caught red-handed by a watcher?
This also got me thinking. Perhaps one of the reasons that they risked it was that they didn't fear the watcher?
Agreed, those are good points. I'm really interesting in hearing who Tasunke watched and what is Mardoc's power role. Those will be key pieces of info for kickstart a day 4 discussion.
zakalwe Wrote:I disagree with this. It's stronger than both baner and tracker, and probably the strongest role claimed or revealed so far. Just consider, which would you prefer as a wolf: having your night kill thwarted by a baner, or being caught red-handed by a watcher?
Hmm. Well, ok, I'll grant it's stronger than baner. I see it on the same level as a tracker, though; the only difference is whether you've got to guess the target or the killer. Tracker can at least provide circumstantial evidence that someone is a villager, which you can't get from Watcher.
Ichabod Wrote:I was receiving a lot of votes too
Really? I saw a few comments about you, but I didn't see a whole lot of votes. Not until after I made my case.
Ichabod Wrote:Agreed, those are good points. I'm really interesting in hearing who Tasunke watched and what is Mardoc's power role. Those will be key pieces of info for kickstart a day 4 discussion.
I don't believe they'll be key, unless Tasunke guesses right and finds a wolf. It's not like we learned anything from his Night 1 use of his power. If he doesn't outguess the wolves, it only tells us about his personal beliefs. Which he could do anyway.
Same with me, unless I use my power effectively, what I say about it won't matter in the least.
Ooh, I'll give you a hint! Whatever it is, it's something that you can twist to make me look guilty! I could claim the sky is blue at this point, and you'd find a way to convict me on it.
Mardoc Wrote:I don't believe they'll be key, unless Tasunke guesses right and finds a wolf. It's not like we learned anything from his Night 1 use of his power. If he doesn't outguess the wolves, it only tells us about his personal beliefs. Which he could do anyway.
Same with me, unless I use my power effectively, what I say about it won't matter in the least.
Ooh, I'll give you a hint! Whatever it is, it's something that you can twist to make me look guilty! I could claim the sky is blue at this point, and you'd find a way to convict me on it.
Don't worry, the possibility that we are 2 villagers going at each other has passed my mind. There are other suspicious players going around, including some very quiet ones. I'm not going to be crusading against you all day 4.
Mardoc Wrote:Ooh, I'll give you a hint! Whatever it is, it's something that you can twist to make me look guilty! I could claim the sky is blue at this point, and you'd find a way to convict me on it.
I think this more accurately reflects your view of Ichabod. Ichabod has voiced quite a bit of doubt in his proceedings, you have expressed a great deal of certainty. I have lost all interest in the feud between you (I know it's not a personal one, but still), there's just too much text. I hope we'll be looking elsewhere tomorrow and maybe revisit this later.
Catwalk Wrote:I think this more accurately reflects your view of Ichabod. Ichabod has voiced quite a bit of doubt in his proceedings, you have expressed a great deal of certainty. I have lost all interest in the feud between you (I know it's not a personal one, but still), there's just too much text. I hope we'll be looking elsewhere tomorrow and maybe revisit this later.
I agree that its gotten confusing which is why I wanted to make sure I understood Ichabod correctly. Now its clear to me what Ichabod's stance wad. Before he thought Tasunke wad innocent, then had the revelation Tasunke was likely guilty based on the power limitation. Then after Commodore was revealed he realized Tasunke could be innocent still. Now Tasinke is maybe guilty in his eyes
Day 1
MNG in a landside at the end, but there were points in the day where each of Commodore, Ichabod, and Rowain had 4+ votes on them.
Day 2
Tie day between Bigger & Commodore. Commodore leads the entire day for the most part, though Ichabod accumulates a peak of 5 votes during the time when the Bigger wagon is gaining steam. At the end I swap from Commodore to Bigger creating the tie.
I definitely talked myself into preferring Bigger > Commodore at the end of the day. I'm not sure how much of an effect Lewwyn's "Make it a tie!" enthusiasm had on the final outcome.
Day 3
Commodore in a landslide. We consider three other Candidates (JKaen who peaked at 4 votes, Tasunke also at 4, and Ichabod who peaked at 6). Commodore more or less gains votes consistently throughout the entire day. He buries himself when he claims that he misread his role PM but doesn't claim.
Looking at the above, we actually have a relatively small number of players who have been in the lynch spotlight at any point this game. Mr. Nice Guy, Commodore, Ichabod, Rowain, Bigger, JKaen, Tasunke. Given that I can see how Ichabod is personally worried about how things are progressing, regardless of alignment. I think seeing the pattern would be much more concerning for him if he's a wolf.
I went ahead and took the hourly-vote reports and rebuilt the spreadsheet. I only changed one thing, the entry for post 122 was wrong about Gaspar's vote. I also added a few more things too. You'll need Excel 2007 or better to view it.
Mardoc Wrote:I suppose, maybe, I could see Tasunke being cleared in your mind by his metagame post, since your theory on his guilt was entirely metagame as well.
The entirety of the case against me was "metagame issues" plus "he smells funny".
I can't really argue against the later, and the former ... well ... I did argue against.
As far as your limitation, I don't think it has anything to do with your alignment. I think it makes you a power investigator.
ie: RoleCop, Seer, Tracker, Watcher, et al (basically anything other than Voyeur)
Neither of these clear you and neither of these condemn you.
The packs could be identical, or they could be mirrors of each other, or they could just be assymetric balance.
For all I know, there is one village Watcher and one village Tracker. Maybe there is an assumption (on the host's part) that, even if kills alternate in a 1:2:1:2: sequence, that there is enough chance in play for the two power investigators to cover both packs "relatively evenly as random chance permits". This would then likely be followed by one pack having Tracker and one Pack having Watcher.
What is more likely though? What is more likely is that there is one Watcher (village), two Trackers (White and Black), and one village Seer to make up for the Watcher's limitation. (As the Seer does not matter when they find out, only who they choose, it would be guaranteed unless the redirector chooses the same target).
By the way, that redirector power seems pretty scary. Can it redirect wolf and Vigilante kills as well? Or just investigative roles?
