Proposal: EitB Pitboss game

[Kyan]

I'm sorry, maybe i'm being thick but I don't understand why we are getting a new random order. We already chose a random order?

I'll try and explain what I mean briefly. We normally (in all snake picks) use the following order to choose who picks when:

A B C D D C B A

This is acknowledged to be fair as A gets the best and worst civ, D gets two average. It's fairness is why we use it each and every time.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

A= 1+8 = 9
B= 2+7 = 9
C= 3+6 = 9
D= 4+5 = 9

Mathematically, this is fair. We all gain the same relative benefit/strength. 'A' would only have an advantage if the first pick was worth significantly more than the 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks. I 100% do not believe this is the case (as evidence by offering to swap). In this situation, I actually believe A has the worst of it and D has the best as there are, in my opinion, 6-7 'top tier' civs.

We were given a random order previously. It was never going to be mathematically fair as that simply isn't possible in this case. Hence, we randomised it. 'A', in this case my team, came first. Why are we now having to go last instead? We already had (and this is totally opinion and not backed up by maths) the worst of it, why are we making it worse when the random order given to us works just fine. I can see absolutely no reason to re-order it.

If i've missed something, please can someone point this out to me.

[Ichabod]

I just randomized the numbers like asked, my opinion is that this is something that shoul be decided between the teams.

[Kyan]

I just randomized the numbers like asked, my opinion is that this is something that shoul be decided between the teams.

I know mate.

I simply don't understand the logic. It is almost certainly me being a dumbass but I just don't get why we would randomise it for the third pick?

My understanding was we would get a random order for the pick as a whole. Your suggesting that we randomise an order for first civs picks and randomise an order for third civs picks. In that case, don't we need to randomise an order for the second civs?

So confused.

[Mardoc]

Kyan, here's the way I see it. We all agreed that a snake pick was more-or-less even for the first two rounds, if randomized. People still think that different positions in the snake pick are more or less valuable, but they're close enough that a random chance at the position you want was considered fair enough.

However, we needed a third round, which pretty much can't be made fair. Since people disagreed on what was fair, and didn't want to debate it, we decided to let the dice decide this question too. I'm under the firm impression that consensus included plako, at least, so it's got representatives from all teams onboard.

Personally, I think the question of 9th pick vs 12th pick is unimportant, so I just went along to get along. Two dice rolls is less variation than one, and I don't want to have to think about the question in any event. I want to spend my time playing and planning, not debating the picking scheme.

Honestly, we've got events on, the RNG will have its say in every battle and spell cast, and there's still randomness to come in the simpler questions like who gets which neighbors, which direction scouts go first, so on and so forth. Perfect fairness is impossible in any event.

All things considered - if we wanted a perfectly fair game, we should have abandoned the pick entirely and allowed duplicate civs/leaders. Or maybe played something other than FFH, something deterministic like chess or Diplomacy.

I guess it comes down to the simple point: the difference in order for round three is considered to be small enough that it's within the normal variation of luck we expect to see anyway.

[Kyan]

Ok, I understand your point and agree.

(Told you I thought it was just me being dumb, long day )

[Hart]

(it wasn't me)

[WarriorKnight]

So Team 2, how close are you guys to picking your civs?

[Hart]

Right now.

We choose Kandros Fir of the Khazad, and Tasunke of the Hippus.

[nabaxo]

We go with Varn Gosam of Malakim.

[Mardoc]

Man, you guys do like to mess up plans...

May be a little while before we can claim civ #2.