Complaints and Suggestions

[Big Z]

Unfortunately I dont have any accusations to make to add to the pot, but I do want to make some clarifications because I'm kinda shocked at how people are percieving me.

I doubt this will even ease tensions or whatever is going on, but I'm glad to know how people are feeling. Basically I'm getting the notion that we are "no shows". Well it seems I am the no show, which can not be further from the truth. For those who know me, obviously a very few, I'm a very personable person, if you can think back 2 yrs ago (exaggeration) when I posted my stance on this alliance idea I simply supported getting to know each other before we build. And its so evident that the strategy has not been on one accord.

Example, my participation has been rated mainly on my activeness on this forum. While I have been rating based on actual in game players I can interact with. I'm not saying my way is right or wrong, Im just saying thats how I have been operatiing.There is no way you can say you have not ever seen me on A Chat; holding convos, offering or asking for help, or just acting silly to let people know I was alive.Greeting the alliance is always the first thing I do when I come online. Whether I get a response of not, thats a different story.Nor can those who actually use vent can say they have never heard me hanging out or actually doing things with in game gamers. Do I jump on RB's vent server everyday? I'm sorry I dont, although I dont see any allies on ours --well other than that pesky Jude :P .

Once again, we are just going for the same goal with two visions. I dont see why every post seems to hold more and more tension when all we have to do is simply get in touch and see where everyone is coming from. Of course we are guilty of not really really reaching out to find out the collective game plan, but the thing is, no one has. We've had our ways and you guys have had yours. If I'd realize that this forum was your communication trump card, then heck, I'd post every other week, lol. I dont even use my own forums that often because WHY am I going to type to people who (a.) hasnt played in a week themselves (b.) I cant even play with in game if they ARE on. In an earlier reply someone said ppl arent active in game but still just want things done their way (aka opinions).

Im not aiming that at anyone, but from experience I find that to be true. For example the opinions that Slaa (Aeon the Piglet) expressed, triggered a whole back-and-forth thing that is only getting more tense. I mean those were HIS opinions; His suggestions and HIS complaints. Well only Jude can agree to this (and I am in NO WAY name dropping) but Slaa and I personality wise are polar opposites (Yeah Slaa you suck).But he is one of my best friends because we can actually sit down (figuratively) and talk about where we are coming from so we can come to an agreement. Its unfair to have some of the things said about either him or myself based on what you read, when you havent spent time to find out. Right now from what I've been reading its like we're fighting uphill to justify ourselves mainly because we havent flooded this forum. Now I am not defending Slaa, he's a grown ass man. Whatever he says, he says. But I know his intentions are good so I stand by that. I CAN say that those who I have met, I've tried my darndest to speak and interact with them everytime I see them. Me personally? I would rather just talk with someone (Vent FTW) rather than trying to decipher the emotion of someones words (but thats just me)

Yeah we have lost a bunch of people, but we're not dead. Like i said before, I prefer a few good men anyway. We had a buttload of people who never did anything with the guild to begin with. Yes some of them left because they felt the alliance were inactive but thats their case. Although we have lost some good players due to the lack of planning there are millions of gamers that play GW everyday, so optimism ftw.

As far as FAIL the guild is concern its only a temp guild to get the original band back together. Just for the record so everyone can know, we're planning on making another guild now that we have just got our guys back together from breaks and real life situations. We've both (being as it seems to be FAIL vs allies ) have the same intentions and same goals. And it seems that since we have been missing each other on the strategy front I get to read great things such as

"why hasn't your leader posted anything here, if he was the one interested in pursuing this alliance to begin with?"

or

"As for Z trusting us to handle things... I (and probably everyone else) was unaware he expected us to do everything and Fail nothing. Because let's just be honest... Fail hasn't done much of anything."

I mean dang, I did trust you guys to handle things, but I dont think I ever made the intention that I was gonna sit on my butt....And I believe the "FAIL hasnt done anything thingy" seems to be coming from perception...

But anyway, I doubt this would even be read, and I hope its not offending anyone. And if you are not dead from reading this mini novel, I hope it makes sense, I talk better than I type. My IGN is Z U R I E L , let me do something I should have done a while ago. Can I get the "ambassadors or leaders" IGNs so I can just hunt people down and say something sporatic like.... "wassup?" so I can be at least an "active in game no show"?

So lets just drop this crazy miscommunication issue and get on the same page. And I would like to meet some of the people who are making such strong opinions in game. Im EST and I know we have international gamers and others in different time zones but its a start to having some balance...i think..**prays that this post makes readable sense**

Da Homie,
Z

[Seijin]

Seriously, lots of miscommunication or lack thereof by everyone. No one should point fingers at just one guild. I don't feel its FAIL vs Allies. I may not know you guys, but I don't think you guys are lazy or don't care or inactive. Its just miscommunication. To communicate, anyone can initiate first contact rather than wait for others to contact them. I don't know FAIL guys that well, so obviously I don't contact you and you guys don't contact me. I just want to get this shit over with and get the ball moving. Its a growing experience for everyone. And EVERYONE should be trying to help. If you make a suggestion, DON'T LEAVE IT FOR OTHERS TO TRY AND DO BY THEMSELVES! If you make a suggestion, one you're serious about, go out and do it or help others try to implement it. Until that happens, its going to remain a suggestion. For instance, Aeon wanted a separate forum, someone challenged him to make one, he did it. At least he did what he had suggested to try and move this alliance in a certain direction. This does not mean every suggestion is going to come to fruition. But at least it shows that you want something to happen or want something to change and want to be proactive.

I honestly think there are people who will make a suggestion and just expect someone else to follow it, implement it, and make it a reality. That doesn't work unless the person you want to implement everything has no life beyond GW and endless amounts of time to do it. Not to mention, that person also has to agree with you. I play this game for enjoyment as I think we all do. I do this in my spare time. If this becomes work for me. I'd rather just leave and go get another job so at least I get paid.

I hate drama and I don't want to see it develop here. This is getting childish. I'm almost of sound mine to make my own guild where all I have to do is listen to myself. That works pretty well for me at least. I don't have to waste my time making posts on how we should be conducting ourselves as RESPECTED allies and guild members. I mean even KoP took heat from his own guild on how he was handling things. And when he said he'd step back and let the rest of the guild handle things people were suggesting, no one took action. Someone might suggest me, and why I haven't done shit. Well, I'm not always an interactive person. The only suggestion I ever made was a name for the phantom guild. Other than that, I had no problems with what was going on. I do have a problem now. This is taking wayyyyyy tooooooo long and all we're doing now is debating over things that we haven't done. So maybe we should just DO them!

I don't care if its a phantom guild or RB or Arch or FAIL that is the lead guild. As far as I'm concerned, we're all supposed to be equals, so it shouldn't make a difference. Also, as equals, we should all try to participate equally in the forming of the alliance and the decisions of the alliance. If anyone doesn't want to participate then that's their loss and a partial loss of their equality because they're giving it up, no one is taking it away from them. I don't care if the forums are on our site or some other site. Though, I do not care for the responsibility to maintain it on another site. If that happens, there should be people from EACH guild willing to help maintain/moderate the site. If its on someone's main forums, then that guild has a responsibility to maintain it because that's their choice.

Maybe we should have an actual meeting????

That'd be nice. Anyone who wants to represent their guilds can go. After all, we are all equals. If you can't make it...well kinda shit out of luck because we can't accommodate everyone, which means if I miss...oh well, you guys just aren't going to be blessed with the presence of RB's mascot. If you miss and want to know what went on, talk to your guildie, talk to an ally, visit the forums, do something to find the info and don't expect it to be handed to you on a silver platter.

I've gone on a rant god damn it!

So are we good? Do I have to make more posts? I honestly don't like doing this...I probably sound like an idiot anyways since I just got home from work, I'm tired, I've been out in the sun for about 7 hours, and I have to do it again tomorrow. :mad:

Can we all play nice now in the forums? Can we stop pointing fingers? That is rude after all. Best person to point a finger at is yourself. Always, before pointing fingers at someone else, ask if you did EVERYTHING you could have to make the situation better or make things correct.

I'm tired now...I need dinner...

[Jude Phailin]

I do know Slaa and Z pretty well and as you all know I do spend quite a bit of time with Fail. On many an occasion I have backed them and will continue to do so when I feel I need or want to.

Like Z said he and Slaa are very opposite but still the best of friends. I respect the relationship that they have. Now Slaa may have posted but it may or may not mirror what the rest of Fail thinks.

Also Z is not absent. He is doing his best and doing what he feels is best. Z is one of the best guys that I know on here and is totally worth getting to know.

I think that if everyone would take the time to spend time with the Fail guys instead of saying things like "well they never participate" you will find a different story. I am happy that they are here and like I said when they came here I will support them being here.

Take time to get to know people. Step out of the box. The sunlight only hurts for a moment.

Thanks you all,
Jude

[KingOfPain]

Sheesh man, did you think you had to save up posting privileges for this one long ass post

Anyway, I understand why everyone is a bit on the defensive and say/take things they may not have otherwise, any other time. It's been a long and tough month and a half for all of us.

Just for the record - The online "alliance meeting" was not planned. I log'd on with one sole purpose and thought I would give whoever happened to be online a chance to bitch at me before I acted. It was no secret meeting, nor was I trying to be "fair" to include everyone who was not on. If anyone has a problem with that, I am the blame. I went online to set the phantom guild to Aria of Zeal, and it would be up to the guilds to join it or leave it. WE NEEDED TO MOVE FORWARD, that was of utmost priority and had to be done then and there. If anyone thinks that was a tyrannical maneuver then I urge you to look back in the discussions and see how many opportunities... um, just take Seijin's word for it.

...And when he said he'd step back and let the rest of the guild handle things people were suggesting, no one took action...

I don't like to act without everyone's (at least most people) consent but there are times I have to do the dirty deed, and that was one of those times. I resent having to do that.

We went through a lot to get here - now that we got over this hump and most concerns with a working solution, let's all relax and work toward some alliance fun.

I am not here to lay blames but I do have a couple of suggestions.

That's really cool Slaa is a proactive kind of guy and he has some legit points. However, it would help us more if he took the time to catch up on the issues so we don't have to start the discussion from square one, again.

And that is why a discussion forum is the perferred mode of communication when there are more than a handful of people involved. It keeps a record for the late comers, it's there for anyone who cares to be involved whether they are or can be online or not. It saves having to repeat discussions for those who weren't online. *winks to Z*

I will shut up now, I want to play some tonite

KoP

[Uca Firewind]

Z, my comments were not directed at you in the way they seem to have come across. (As Rolande tried to warn me before posting... Anger clouds my comprehension ) I was hoping (and had a sneaking suspicion) that Aeon's attack here had nothing to do with Fail's opinions as a whole and thought sarcasm would show that. I wanted to make clear that saying "You're really disappointing Z" was, well... lame. As I said later in my post, None of us have been doing what we should be.

As for the "alliance meeting," it was just one example of how Aeon was, essentially, not getting his facts straight before going off the handle. If our experience as an alliance thus far has taught us nothing, it's that acting rashly is just as "anger inducing" as dragging our feet.

I think moving on from here is a fabulous step, and I think we can agree that next time, this shouldn't be how it starts up. It makes tense situations and puts us all on the defense.

So.. uh... Can we get a link to Fail's forums, please?

[Jude Phailin]

Fails Homepage here you go

[Aeon the Piglet]

@Aeon: Then my friend's list has been bugged several times. *shrug* not unheard of, but whatever. Not really important at all.

Also... Please read the forums. We're not an Alliance of Oink. We're Realms Beyond Alliance. As shown by a very important poll, about a week ago. Which we actually had an alliance wide meeting in game about (where Fail *did* have a presence) so... yeah. I'll register on those forums, but I doubt those will be kept. I don't mean to sound as if you are being a pain, because I love that you're being proactive now... but I'd suggest you take some time to catch up and discuss alliance things before just doing.

As I said on the thread in our forum, if you guys intend to actually lead, I don't give a flying fecal chunk where the forum is or how much participation there is from my guild. I just want some leadership.

And as I told Jude, I mainly made it to prove a point: creating a new forum is not a lot of work. Besides, I forgot the password to the email account that the registration information goes to anyway (what can I say, my mind wasn't on the work there ). I could probably validate you anyway, but it'd be pretty pointless.

edit:

And another thing. I realize that my prior post in which I complained that KingOfPain was doing all the work may be taken as an attack on him. That ain't how I feel. I've been in situations (as I'm sure Z well knows) where I've been putting in the lions share of the labor. I didn't pretend it was everyone working together though, and that was what bugged me.

I don't know who the alliance leader is, but if it ends up being someone like KingOfPain I'd be happy, because I know things would happen.

[Seijin]

Well i thought we all went into this wanting "equal" shares of the pie. To me that means everyone, not just one guild, should be trying to get things to happen which is why we initially had the thought of having no particular guild taking the actual leading role and putting a phantom guild in place. It was my understanding that we were all "leaders" so to speak in the making of this alliance.

Obviously, this doesn't seem to be working if people are thinking of one guild leading everyone. If thats the case, one leader will have more of say than everyone. Because in this case, things are not equal if everyone isn't willing to take on an equal share of the task at hand.

Like I said, if you want something done, then take the initiative to be a leader and do it rather than say it and expect someone else to do it. Help by being a positive leader. Its always easiest to say something is broke and to hope that someone else fixes it. We're all culprits of doing this.

I was always aware FAIL had a forum, I just never knew where it was. Jude did mention it, but I never saw any links appear on our website. I even tried to google search it and that proved to be difficult. Meanwhile I know Arch had one and I visit there every so often.

It has taken a while to get things moving, but like I said, this is new territory for us all. We're trying to do something positive, it may take a while. We're trying to make things as fair as possible and want feedback from everyone. Most alliances that I know of have a leading guild that takes charge, takes charge of everything, much like ZoS did. But its your choice to get involved. It can be on forums, it can be on vent, or in game chat. I honestly rarely see things about the alliance being discussed in chat. I may be missing it, I have no clue. But when I am on, I don't see any discussion from anyone. We all have our own vent servers too. I rarely jump onto vent unless I'm doing some group activity and hence I won't jump onto other people's vents unless invited usually. FAIL may communicate with each other through vent a lot. RB communicates a lot through forums. I have no idea what Arch's primary form of communication is. So we have different communication styles. We all have to understand this. If you wish for positive results, then by all means, provide positive constructive feedback. Who likes to be criticized? I doubt anyone does. Constructive criticism, though, can be a positive form of communication and can help us fix problems and move forward. Angering others just throws a wrench in the process. We then focus on problems, whats causing it, and who's arguing with whom..we lose site of our goals. Instead, focus on the problems and how to solve it. Help implement the solution or find other feasible means to solve the problem.

I don't know how often I get upset over something in GW, then realize its a game. Patience, being calm, collecting your thoughts, being positive can be more productive than getting upset. It also screws up one's credibility with other people if they seem to just get angry. Who wants to get mad over a game? I don't. But of course, I'm no one to tell others how to live their in game lives.

Wow, this thread is taking up a lot of our time now isn't it?

[Sciros]

I'm glad we have a good leader ^_^ and I'm glad we have good allies. Now let's get us some more :-)

Oh yeah, my IGN for Fail is: Sciros Darkblade

[Aeon the Piglet]

I'm aggressive, this IS my constructive criticism.

And yeah, our forum barely gets any use. I think I've been our top poster for two or three forums running now, and I've run all but the current one. We're vent maniacs, which is why I'm hurtin now that I've got no mic.


But to repeat the important stuff: I'm happy so long as someone is taking charge and doing stuff. Someone is taking charge and doing stuff. Therefore, I'm happy. Someone give me a job, I'm a demon for getting stuff done.

In my opinion, thread closed.