[spoilers]Commodore is Darius II of the HRE, now with less excuse.

[Commodore]

While exploring and toying with the notion of plunging deep into the center of this Pangaea, I have a few thoughts on warfare here. Please note this is actually largely theoretical, as I've never played a Pangaea of this form before. I am operating under the assumption that this is a more conventional "blob-with-squiggly-outline" continent and not the "several blobs stuck together" model, for reasons of balance.

In general, with five players the fairest way to balance them on a pangaea is to arrange them in a pentagon, so each player borders two others, with the center of the continent a riotous five-way clustersettle. For simplicity, then, we have four fronts, our north or east neighbor, our south neighbor, the middle hot zone, and (post-Astronomy) the ocean.

The oceanfront is a deadly, deadly place once deep-water hulls are available, even moreso once aircraft carriers and transports enable strong Sirian strikes. The lack of islands means that offensive fleets are going to be horribly exposed, but so too are defending coastal cities, so unless there is a significant tech edge on one side, I expect naval fights to be horrifically expensive. The tech edge, thing, is of course huge...so the main objective on the naval side of things is to keep ahead in tech. The map is vast enough that long-term circumnavigating strikes are going to be kind of ridiculous. An Optics bulb will be kept in mind for circumnavigation bonus, by the way.

The north/east border is a bit of a cipher to me right now, to be honest. It looks like we're in the lower temperate band, so it wouldn't shock me if there was someone in higher latitudes, but if so they are NE. There could also just be an empty waste up there and our main rival is due eastward. The borders there need to be secured early and solidly, as it should be fairly open, settleable terrain.

To the south the jungle belt begins. From looking at Novice's tool a bit he seems to consider jungle "real land", so I won't be shocked if there is a rival fairly close on the other side of the jungle. Jungle borders are weird. Until iron working and (generally) calendar, the land is largely useless, but once those two techs come in you're looking at a very green and usually lush tract of prime land...that still takes a ton of worker labor to clear. We do need to set good borders southward, but they can wait for a bit in general as I'm betting Mr. South is also going to be taking his time clearing that mess. Of course, in the best possible world Mr. South invests heavily in cleaning and developing the jungles, and then a knight stack from us re-appropriates the new prime territory. Dyes and sugar aren't amazing luxuries, but they are worthwhile enough to claim them early.

The high risk/high reward settling grounds are those in the center. One reason I'm pretty well set on Riffington as the second city is that it pushed directly towards the middle. Everyone will probably have equal access to the apparently lush center, so established claims are important. If at all possible, I want our cities in the center to be on hills, and getting culture defenses up, or grabbing the stone for cheap walls, will be vital. Engineering is a good earlier tech for us anyway, so castles and a good three-move road network ought to be in place soon after the Guilds timeframe. How aggressively we tackle the middle, of course, also depends on the aggressiveness rating of our neighbors.

Aggressiveness ratings, in order:

Commodore:

As mentioned before, I am very aware of the steady undercurrent of warmongery in my plays. I hate being pink dotted and a reputation for violence can only help by making my rivals cautious. On the other hand, I'd really like to win one of these things, and this is at least a decent chance here. That means playing the Krill playbook or the Seven playbook, which in both cases means strong economy, solid defense, and then hitting at the right time. The right time can be knights, cavalry, tanks, or Sirian fleets, but it is not a grinding ancient or classical-era war. Discipline, Commodore!

Mistabod:

Mist is actually a fairly aggressive personality, prone to advocate early and often spoiling attacks, and Ichabod is no slouch when it comes to warring either. The combination of Imperialistic and a strong military will slow their economy down on a Guilds beeline, but I fully expect that's their endgame. The right is always cataphracts. I'm willing to bet Mist pushes for hard spoiling raids too. I don't think we'll see an existential threat out of them pre-Guilds, but opportunistic border razes are something to watch for. Nice as LKs are, "getting knights first" is probably the second best option to handle these guys. The first best, of course, is "don't border them".

Oledavy:

Davy is a bit of a cipher for this ancient era, given he's never reported one fully (25v teamer was more Mack's baby, I think). Nonetheless, we do know that he's loves his war in these games, more I think than anyone else playing here. He's in love with tactics, but as time moves on he's getting better and better at the logistics side of things, which is where war really runs (P.S. I suck at logistics, never putting in the proper time for them). His slow starting leader means that he will be focusing on economic development early, but he'll also plan to settle aggressively and use Artist bombs once Caste opens up that option. Once Nationalism and Gunpowder are online, I expect him to begin his main offensives, but he's not adverse to going off earlier if he sniffs weakness. Engaged wars with Davy will all be existential. He's also a massively experienced naval commander, so I fully expect him to press over-ocean when he can.

Gaspar:

Don't let the barking-man avatar fool you, Gaspar is a very cautious, canny man. His pride is prickly, his persona is aggressive, but his inner heart is that of a builder. He loves playing Civ to build beautiful empires (I do too, really), and if he thinks he can win without fighting at all, he might very well do so. On the other hand, if someone messes with his beautiful empire, he will get very, very angry (and write entertainingly about it, too). I hope someone else kicks his sandcastles, while I will cheerfully send him missionaries. One other note, lack of fundamental aggression is not a lack of ability to start wars. If he sees a good (keepable) catch, or senses crumbling, he will help himself to what spoils he can. Existential threats come from his sector only if he thinks he's lost, or he thinks we're about to win. Otherwise, border wars (that might still escalate).

Yuri:

Yuri is a friendly guy, who makes his cheerful plans and then sticks to 'em. I haven't yet seen him lose his temper, although he's obviously gotten annoyed. I can't really see a Yuri attack unless he is; out of room, pink dotted hardcore, or really in the hole. Now he is still a huge threat to win this thing, with HC of the Ottomen easily the best combo. Jans to counter cataphracts will become Jans and cannon to kill a rival very quickly. Still, wars with Yuri will probably never be all-or-nothing if he's in the driver's seat.

[Commodore]

One interesting thing is that if you reverse that aggressiveness order you have my ranking on who is most likely to win. I think that's mostly because of the power of HC/Ottomen and the rocket start that Bella/China gets, but interesting nonetheless.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I'm still itching to play against you so I'll have a nice long paragraph on how badass I think I am

[spacetyrantxenu]

The right time can be knights, cavalry, tanks, or Sirian fleets, but it is not a grinding ancient or classical-era war. Discipline, Commodore!

Where is Commodore and what have you done with him? Is our trend toward next to die in PB7 the lesson you needed that ancient era wars is a losing proposition? I'm not ready to learn that lesson yet...I think we just needed to double down and send more troops!

I'm probably never going to be the voice of reason you need to stay your whip hand when deciding whether or not to drive your troops to war. Hey, don't we have another ded-lurker around here who is supposed to post sane ideas? Let's let him be the voice of reason, you and I can keep plotting ancient era wars. Here's the first lie: We can effectively stop the 'phract attack by killing Mistabod before they make it to Guilds. There's the headline, go write the story.

[Commodore]

Where is Commodore and what have you done with him? Is our trend toward next to die in PB7 the lesson you needed that ancient era wars is a losing proposition? I'm not ready to learn that lesson yet...I think we just needed to double down and send more troops!

I'm probably never going to be the voice of reason you need to stay your whip hand when deciding whether or not to drive your troops to war. Hey, don't we have another ded-lurker around here who is supposed to post sane ideas? Let's let him be the voice of reason, you and I can keep plotting ancient era wars.

Friend Xenu, you don't know Commodore as he once was. Heartbreak has dogged my steps for several builder-games, and the setup of the last few games was much more aggressive. But this is Civilization IV...much as Davy would like it to be, this isn't a wargame, it's an economy game. Darius is about as backloaded a leader as there is, particularly with spies on.

Ancient and classic era wars can be successful...about one out of every twenty times. The setup here probably isn't the best for it, though, with nobody so newbie or passive as to be worth hitting, nor anyone so massively skilled as to require someone to kill them before they runaway. The most skilled player here is probably Gaspar, and he's got the fastest leader, but I've outstripped his Isabella/China lightning start and hybrid economy before with the far economically weaker Washington of Mongolia. We can fight 'em with butter as well as guns.

Here's the first lie: We can effectively stop the 'phract attack by killing Mistabod before they make it to Guilds. There's the headline, go write the story.

That's no lie. I think we can. And make no mistake, if we're next door to them and if they are leaving themselves open on a Guilds beeline, Holy Roman catapults and axes will be knocking at the doors post-haste. But the question, always, will be this: "Can we make it profitable?"

[Commodore]

Oh yeah. Allow, over lunch, played Turn 9. The scouting was a little dull. I'm debating between going NW or NE now...NW will show the close-in expansion area, I'd hate to miss a gold/copper/grassland pigs/plains cow spot nearby.



And speaking oversights...any dedicated dedlurker up for intense fogreading/flying camera analysis of the west? The wet corn sharer spot will be the second city just for the logistics ease, but when it does come time to backfill we'll need to be careful to not isolate more than we must. I think this is just a shot peninsula, but I lack fog-fu confidence.



Mistabod obviously has joined Yuri in the two-tech clubhouse. Next turn we'll examine GNP to see where they they go next.



Interesting? Question?

[Ceiliazul]

any dedicated dedlurker up for intense fogreading/flying camera analysis of the west?

send me the file, I'll take a look when I can (might be a while!)

I'm reading every post, by the way. scout should move NW and hope the land extends north enough to give him a looping path out. Gotta know what's in your immediate area.

You speculated about an opponent at higher latitudes, NW provides a better test of this anyway.

[spacetyrantxenu]

I'll take a look at the fog when I get a chance, hopefully tonight.

[Commodore]

Going sort-of northwest here...W, NE this turn, then N, NW next turn. I'm kind of curious about the coastal shape to the east, this pangaea might be a weird-shaped one. On the other hand, it might also be another big lake, this is the lakiest pangaea I've seen thus far.



Looks like Mistabod is doing a BW run, unless that power jump was from Hunting and now they're going AH? Byzantium's miserable techs make for dull starts, but at least they have IMP boosting things. Gaspar, also, is now done with Bronze Working and managing some other awesome tech. No growths yet, as expected.



Comfortingly, we can now put the rush on a warrior if something mean appears out of the fog. I could have timed things to grow and finish the warrior at the same time, but I'd rather not have the worker sitting around all bored waiting for chopability. A second worker and then a settler seems best to me, if a single warrior is enough to comfortably protect me.



Tech path is BW (slipping in Agriculture's last beaker) -> Wheel -> something. I'm thinking of Poly for Hinduism popping the second city's borders, Fishing for fish, Pottery for granaries/cottaging the two riverside grasses (need something for commerce). Writing and Maths are pretty important, could go to CoL early via Priesthood but I'd rather go the economy path.

[Commodore]

Couple turns this morning, which is quite lovely. Got Mining, which is ironically first tech for me. A couple mines early will be big, I reckon, although the whip is bigger.



Next! Hook up ye olde deer, enable growth, and on we go. I'm going to go ahead and switch to a worker, relaxed in knowing it can be one-turned in an emergency.



Demos, turn 11:



And after EoT and growth turn 12. Top population!



Scout found something interesting.



And something else even more interesting. The desert is actually looking kind of nice now. Glad we opted to swing around, there is a nice city or two over here. I'm not grabbing for the Oracle, so the marble isn't all that impressive, still, by the time Literature and/or Calendar comes around all these forests might mean a very fast wonder or two.



Fun times in Holy Rome. The Sluggy Freelance theme, by the way, is a bit light on names and seriousness. Any suggestions for theme?