Gandhi of France II - Assuming Direct Control

[oledavy]

Just as reference, Yuri completed the Oracle in the following time frames previously:

PBEM19 - Turn 33 (Industrious Leader - Same Pick As Here)
PBEM23 - Turn 37 (Industrious Leader)

I'm sure there are other examples of him building the Oracle, but these were the first two that came to mind. So, it's looking like my initial ~t45 time frame is not good enough.

EDIT:

The earliest we can get it (Priesthood finished) is t35
However, Pottery won't be done until six turns later (t41)
Chopping it out at four cities, concurrent with the founding of a city on the marble and the research of Masonry - as I would like to do - would put it off until (t45)

[novice]

The problem, apart from the timeframe and lack of pottery, is how to get a forge.

In pbem29 we finished Oracle eot37 and a forge eot40.

[Shoot the Moon]

Especially since you're phi, that forge needs to come out very quickly after the Oracle.

Other problem: you don't have resource bubbles turned on in any of your screenshots ever

[Tankra]

Yeah, it'll be important to have some pre-chopped forests in your capital for building the forge, because there's only a 5 turn window of opportunity in which you can start running an Engineer and get the GE before the Oracle's Great Prophet pops out. If you take any longer than that, the whole plan goes kaput.

Also, in comparing your Oracle completion times to Yuris' past games, I think it's important to control for relative tile strength. The map you're playing on here is not terribly filled with resources, and your capital is actually quite weak. Assuming it's a reasonably balanced map, Yuris will be in a similar situation. I think it's an important grain of salt with which you should analyze those numbers.

[oledavy]

The problem, apart from the timeframe and lack of pottery, is how to get a forge.

Indeed, this is the big problem I'm facing in trying to get an earlier date for the Oracle. I can chop it out in the capital, and skip over founding a city for Marble. However, Thessia can't get the Forge done in the requisite four turns. If I skip Marble for the Oracle altogether and chop it out in Sur'Kesh, the city to the south, I complete it later than t45.

Bottomline: It doesn't look like I can beat building the Oracle on t45, though there are a still a few variables in play; primarily, if Horses pop anywhere in my current dotmap.

Other problem: you don't have resource bubbles turned on in any of your screenshots ever

FTFY:

Also, in comparing your Oracle completion times to Yuris' past games, I think it's important to control for relative tile strength. The map you're playing on here is not terribly filled with resources, and your capital is actually quite weak. Assuming it's a reasonably balanced map, Yuris will be in a similar situation. I think it's an important grain of salt with which you should analyze those numbers.

Good point. Still, as Industrious, it'll really only take him five forest chops to complete the Oracle, which is leagues more doable than 7-8 I would need. Since none of us are creative; for chopping things in a new city, you're basically limited to the 8 tiles in the first ring. Looking at the land I've uncovered, I can find no viable city location that has more than 4 forests in its first ring.

With any luck, Yuri will get side-tracked with Stonehenge, or will think that he has a lock on the wonder and can take his time. If Yuri makes a straight up push to chop it in his second city, he can beat him. However, he probably won't be able to setup for nab Metal Casting in that time-frame.

On that note, I wonder who gets Stonehenge? Given that none of us are Creative, the value of the wonder is increased. Betting Commodore or Mistabod makes a run at it.

I'm going to hold off a few more turns on arriving at a firm micro plan for the Oracle - waiting until I finish Animal Husbandry and uncover a few more tiles. My micro plan up to t29 is unchanged regardless of what I decide to do next:



It's Turn 29, and I'm two turns away from completing Meditation and hopefully founding Buddhism in Thessia. I have two cities, two workers, and a total of six warriors running around. There is a road between The Citadel and Thessia, in addition to four improved tiles.

It feels a little wrong building so many warriors, but I have little else to build while growing my cities at this point. Still, having these units to explore, stand sentry, and later serve as MPs isn't half-bad I think.

My basic plan for Thessia is to grow the city to size 3, building 3 warriors; while waiting for my pair of workers to complete the grassland hill mines. The turn the city grows, the workers finish (t29) and it switches over to four-turning workers. The Citadel grows on the wheat, picks up the spices, then whips back down. If I do manage to land Buddhism, that will be easy culture in Thessia, and will pop third ring borders in plenty of time to secure the jungle against whoever is north of the rainforest.

I've attached the save file from the t29 position in case anyone would like to take it for a spin.

In the event the Oracle bid fails, we make a run at some other economic wonder. The GLH, MoM, and GW all come to mind. Pyramids might even be doable if I find stone by then. If we land the Great Wall, I think I'll use him to infiltrate whoever built the Oracle to set up to steal MC. From what I've read of Espionage Economies, settling your first spy seems to be the best course of action, so we'll consider that too in the case that this plays out.

As a final note, I was thinking about this game last night; particularly how I would rather not be next to Commodore or Mistibod. Then I had a revelation, which would have been worthy of a Conspiracy Keanu. However, there was too much text for the meme generator; so I present you with the image, and the text below:

What if Commodore's new "Angry Rusher" persona is an elaborate hoax?

He convinces everyone not to fuck with him, then takes advantage of his aura of aggressiveness in this game to build in peace with the perfect builder combo and finally win a game.

Food for thought.

[oledavy]

....Then turn 18 came, and everything changed:



[SIZE="7"]ZOMFG, STONE.[/SIZE]

I need to re-evaluate how I'm going to approach the Pyramids. That stone is 13 tiles east of the capital, probably near the center of the map. Regardless, I'm considering making a play for it.

In less exciting news, I found wet jungled rice in the BFC of the future city of Thessia:



The city will actually be pretty strong post IW, belying the short-term worker plant it was designed as.

[oledavy]

Landed Pyramids on t52, with an optional Great Wall on t49 in Thessia (5t Build w/Stone).



I feel pretty sure I can whittle a turn or two off of that build estimate, which is a pretty decent time frame for building the pyramids if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, I feel I have better odds of getting the Pyramids on T52 than the Oracle on T41/T45, and rushing the Pyramids 12 turns later.

The big question is, will I be able to settle that Stone without opposition? I settled a city for copper in my WB playthrough, and additionally, could tech hunting + archery and start the Stone city on an archer. Doable I think.

[Tankra]

Hmm... I agree that the Stone changes much, but don't you think it leaves you a little exposed, going after it so far away from your capital? Even assuming you're able to defend your road-building Workers, your Settler and your Stone city once you build it, you'd be vulnerable to having one of your culture-less road tiles gratuitously pillaged by an opponent. Something any one of them could do without even declaring war.

Don't get me wrong though, it's an awesome plan and a really entertaining way of getting the Pyramids. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Maybe you can find a way to make sure your roads won't be tampered with?

[oledavy]

Maybe you can find a way to make sure your roads won't be tampered with?

Well, these guys might have a problem if someone messes with the Stone Highway:



Eh....check that. Need to stick to the theme. How about we have this chick defending the road:



Crazy Bitch, thy name is Jack.

In all seriousness, I'm not quite sure how this will work out. I will have plenty of warriors running around, but nothing that packs a serious punch for quite some time. With any luck, I'll have the Pyramids built before my neighbors are even aware of the presence of the stone - and use my warriors to screen them away from the road and city. If someone is dead set determined to screw with me....well, let's explain in pictures, shall we?

Here's my gorgeous little sandbox:



Check out how beautiful that is. White sand, new shovels, pretty buckets - nobody has pissed in it yet.

Anyway, in that sandbox, I'm building a gorgeous sandcastle. It sorta looks like this:



Now, if Commoyurigaspamistichahelium decides to come stomp on my sandcastle....



First I'm going to be like:



Then I'm going to be like:



And then their cities are going to be like:



So, if all else fails and someone is in a position to screw with my Pyramid build, I'm hoping the fear of making a game-long enemy will prevent them from doing anything.......rash

Would hate for someone to choose unwisely....

[oledavy]

Found ugly yellow borders to the north.

Looks like we border angry rusher Commodore......joy.