You don't rate the Ottoman UU or UB?
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[SPOILERS] Leader & Civ Selection Thread
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Kyan Wrote:Final List Agreed, this is my favorite 5. I think we can make a very simple elimination without simming - do we prefer HRE or Aztecs? Both have identical techs and negligible UUs, so it's really Sac Altar vs Rathaus. I'm thinking with Toroidal maintenance we probably would prefer the Rathaus by a hair? I don't know, I can't remember the last time I played with either so I don't know which one is generally preferable. We can narrow down those two without any simming, so I view those two combined as one option from a practical standpoint. The only thing I think we really need from a sim standpoint is figuring out if Mysticism is an acceptable penalty or not. Otherwise it's going to be discussion on preference and estimation of power.
Viking (hunting+fishing)
Zulu (hunting+mining) France (agriculture+wheel) HRE (hunting+mysticism) Aztec(hunting+mysticism) Viking These I like a lot. Their UB has some significant potential. If we can get Magellan's, this becomes an enormous advantage. Their UU isn't entirely useless as we can upgrade them to rifles to keep the amphibious promo. Zulu Useful mobile spearmen defender. I don't rate it highly in this scenario. -20% maintenance barracks. We don't have AGG for cheap barracks and they are not exactly super cheap otherwise. This is my least favourite out of the five. France Useless UB. Very decent UU and nice techs. Certainly makes the micro easy enough. HRE Boring UU. Very decent UB. An additional -25% maintenance for no extra cost. Compare this to Zulu who give -20% maintenance for the cost of a barracks (granted, you'd want a barracks in some cities anyway so that's not strictly always true). Weaker techs. Aztec Useless UU. Very good UB. The same amount of maintenance but a bit cheaper (3/4 the cost?). In addition has a useful side affect. I think I favour Vikings then Aztec then France. shadyforce Wrote:You don't rate the Ottoman UU or UB? Nope. Jannisarys are dominant if you have a very significant tech lead. Although I'm not saying we won't be the tech leader, it won't be a massive advantage by this point. They are rather lacklustre in my opinion. Ottoman UB means that the Aqueduct gives two happy. This isn't entirely insignificant but is only particularly powerful on games where happy is lacking. I can't see that being the case on a pre-made RB map. The aqueduct is an expensive crap building, this just make it worth building. I view Ottomans as worse than the above five. We crossposted there as my posts are taking a long time to write (I cooked/ate dinner and also bathed the baby mid-way through writing them). Kyan Wrote:Crap. I'm using that link Scooter kindly provided. It may be out-of-date. Ugh, it does have a mistake. FWIW, I've used this tool for forever now and never seen a mistake before, so I seriously hope it's just this one. It is BtS specific as well, so it shouldn't be out-of-date. scooter Wrote:Ugh, it does have a mistake. FWIW, I've used this tool for forever now and never seen a mistake before, so I seriously hope it's just this one. It is BtS specific as well, so it shouldn't be out-of-date. Proves it was made by humans. I'd hate to think I was being advised by robot overlords. 
I've always used this one
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/referenc...r_bts.html which appears to be correct at least for Zulu I prefer Vikings
I like France: strong UU, good starting techs. UB is worthless.
Aztecs: strong UB, very poor UU, not good starting techs. Vikings: unimpressive UU, possibly strong UB (depends on amount and importance of water), OK starting techs. HRE: strong UB, OK-ish UU, not good starting techs. Zulu: decent UB (but more expensive than standard Barracks and not something that would be built eveywhere normally), poor UU (assuming we are right about no early wars), good starting techs. Others can be considered -- happiness-boosting UBs can be nice (Ottomans). Aztecs and HRE are similar in many ways, but to get the most out of the Aztec UB we would need to use a lot of whipping. I don't have a problem with using the whip heavily  and our FIN trait is less suited to a Caste strategy anyway. But it is something to keep in mind. I would probably favor HRE over Aztecs, if we want this "type" of civ.Overall for me: France > HRE > Aztecs > Vikings > Zulu |
