WW14 - The Edge of Reason

[Bigger]

Not a big tell, but defending somebody, voting for that same person, and obvious follow of zak jumped out at me as a non-ordinary post that looked odd.

Just to stress going through I am just tagging posts I want to refer back to later that seemed wierd, doesn't mean those people are wolves, just wanted to keep them on a short list

I never defended Meiz. The closest I came was several pages later when I didn't see how both Meiz and Rowain could be wolfs, and Rowain seemed more guilty. After Lewwyn's post, I saw an opportunity for a joke, but Zak beat me to it, punchline and all. Really, does all humor = scum in your book? I don't see how my vote on Meiz here is in any way suspicious. Meiz was the most suspicious person at that moment for me, since then Rowain, waterbat and VM slipped well ahead of him.

Anyway, I'm not as convinced anymore about Rowain either. Your comment about his personality got me thinking, he is pretty vitrolic and his dogged attacks on pin and others do fit his normal personality, so Im not sure its a good tell after all.

However, I'm about 60% sold on VM and 70% on waterbat. I'll keep my vote for the moment on VM only because he is much more annoying, but happily change to waterbat if he gains traction.

[pindicator]

Not a big tell, but defending somebody, voting for that same person, and obvious follow of zak jumped out at me as a non-ordinary post that looked odd.

When I read it out of context it didn't, but reading it in context with the previous posts does ping a little, I'll admit. Taking zak's post -- which to me reads like a baiting or a joke post -- and running with it was off.

[uberfish]

Votecount

Bigger (5) - Meiz Novice Slowcheetah VM Waterbat
VM (3) - Bigger Molach Rowain
Meiz (2) - Injera Lewwyn
Waterbat (2) - Sareln Zakalwe
Jkaen (1) - Pindicator
Rowain (1) - Jkaen
Sareln (1) - Twinkletoes89
Zakalwe (1) - Mattimeo

[pindicator]

Have I?

Rowain accused you of it in post #51: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....stcount=51

I also thought it as a joke, but you brought up the possible strategy of baiting the wolves to make "easy" attacks against him. Bigger and Lewwyn laughing for it doesn't have anything to do with it. I just found it strange that you had thought the possibility and then "ruined" it for Zak. Slightly suspecting you as a wolf thought Zak would try this kind of strategy and typed it out loud.

If i thought this was a bait and was warning wolves, wouldn't I just post it in the wolf thread and not here? Wouldn't it be better to just do that and be quiet about it here hoping someone else would step in it? It had been way after the fact and nobody had gone after it so I figured there was no harm in pointing it out. Probably was a mistake to do so.

I'd like to know this as well from every player who has simply gone with "Meiz is acting strange"

Looked through Pindicator's posts, for some reason he pinged when I first glanced at it, but on a second read I didn't find anything particularly suspicious.

However, you mention Meiz as giving off fanged vibes a few times. What about him seems off?

I agree with Lewwyn's take on your first post, it gave a good initial blip on the radar about Meiz: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....stcount=17

Then in his earlier scuffle with Rowain, there was an accusation from Rowain about him mis-reading his posts to get a case.

Giving Meiz the benefit of the doubt for a second, there isn't much to go off on day 1 so multiple people are grabbing on little things to make a case out of. And yes, that includes me. Not saying this clears Meiz in my eyes, just that he's pinged and I'll keep it in mind.

As for who I'm going to vote for today, there was one argument made that I do agree with, actually done by slowcheetah: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=144 This falls in line with what my experience of a wolf was in WW12, with zak wanting to bring up meta conversations more often than targeting on the first day to keep the village distracted. That does make a lot of sense, so I'm thinking Bigger gets my vote for it.

But I don't like VM's repeated insistence on bandwagoning - that and he says if you're not bandwagoning the person he wants you to then you must be suspicious too. This is my hesitation against voting for Bigger. But novice seems to think that this is indicative of how the game is played on other sites.

Bigger

[Bigger]

I never made this assumption. i simply didn't agree with the assertion that lynching as punishment for lurking was a great idea.

To me, lynching them seems to be a waste of time. If we set up a lynch on a lurker - where is the information gained in that? Yes, wolves can be hiding among them - was never disputing that.

I would bet lurker's/minimum contributers (not 0 contributers, but minimum contributers) are more likely to be wolves - its harder to put your foot in your mouth if you aren't contributing. Look how far Tasunke, MNG, and Sareln got last game with very little contribution? or Serdoa if you want a player that was a wolf. Its attitudes like that that let them get away w/ very safe, cautious strategies.

I will address it. I have addressed it. I didn't like the response I got, so I left my vote. VM got the same response - now he's the target of Bigger's vote. When I was wolf and was accused ( by seemingly random suspcions ), the first thing I wanted to do was strike back at the person. I think I did it twice in WW12. Now we have the same pattern with Bigger - 2x striking back at the accusers.

so you're saying that I appear wolfish for defending myself from baseless accusations? That makes perfect sense

anyway, this premise simply isn't true. Zak, slowcheetah, novice have all voted for me at one point this day and I didn't point a finger at them. Further, I was on Rowain for quite a bit and he didn't vote or accuse me once. FURTHER, revenge voting is commonplace for villager and wolf, and is a null tell.

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showp...tcount=131
(from ww12)
none of my votes are purely retaliatory - since I know I'm innocent and not leaving any wolf clues, players starting a dogpile against me naturally make me suspicous, and the two of you most especially. You are attempting to create evidence that isn't there, and VM can't even be bothered to present evidence against me.

[Bigger]

Good grief. this is apparently my pattern - when I roll wolf I can avoid all suspicion early and make it to the last day, when I roll village everyone suspects every word I say.

[Sareln]

Sort of trying to keep my eye on both the Spain v. Portugal match & this game at the same time. I'm really not sold on the Bigger wagon right now. VM is ruffling a lot of feathers, but I think a lot of that is coming off a different meta-game where you have to be aggressive b/c lynches fire the second you've got a majority on target.

[slowcheetah]

Bigger, if you're still around what are your views on twinkletoes at this point in the game?

[waterbat]

Bigger, Thanks for an explanation/defence that doesn't include an accusation.

Nevermind - it does include one (at least it isnt overt with the accompanying vote):

You are attempting to create evidence that isn't there

I have to disagree with this - but also I must say - Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing here? Isn't that what zak has been doing to me all day? You aren't going to be sitting out there with a wolf-tag on your forehead for all to see.

I didn't really notice the other votes on you and your reactions. My vote and VM's stuck out to me.

Its hard to do anything in this game without expecting people to pounce, but I will change my vote off of Bigger.

The problem is noone pings scum enough for me to make a case. I will go back and review all the posts *again*.

[slowcheetah]

Bigger, if you're still around what are your views on twinkletoes at this point in the game?

Waterbat, same question to you actually?