yuris125 Wrote:I would prefer Scout SE, then next turn SW-SE; then all tiles north of the capital will be revealed. S gives no advantage over SE, but SE gives more information this turn
Warrior NW, yes
Agreed. After this turn, however, I think we should bring the warrior back.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
yuris125 Wrote:I think he should never go back, and eventually die to a bear like a true hero (are barbs on?). But I won't argue much if you feel he should go home
How many turns until we can get a second warrior out? It looks to me like it will be more than 10 turns, which is a long time to go undefended after two contacts, but maybe it is worth the risk...
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
So, I'm back from holidays and willing to spam a bit!
My personal guess is that:
1. Teams will play conservatively with their first warriors and I think it's highly possible that all the teams will circle their warrior near their capitols (just like we) and thus they are not sent to threaten us.
2. Everyone acknowledges that this is a diplogame and values a positive start to a relationship more than aggressive warrior scouting, and seeking for a lucky elimination opportunity. Even though an opponent team would have a chance to enter a tile with vision to our capitol, they might decide against it in order to appear more friendly.
Therefore I believe that we are safe without the protection of our starting warrior and we can keep exploring the coast and confirm the type of the map. Of course I understand the more conservative play, nobody wants to die in the first 20 turns just because of couple additional revealed tiles.
Are we sure that the next build is warrior or are we considering 2nd worker or even settler? If that's not 100 % sure then I guess we want to get our fellow back.
As far as I understand, a double Worker opening only makes sense when combined with early BW, so that the 2nd Worker can be partly chopped, and then they both chop into whatever is built next. Since we're delaying BW and have plenty of good tiles to work, I would say we want to grow after the first Worker
From the sandboxing thread, I see that the Warrior is finished on T23, the same turn when the city grows to size 3. This is quite late, so bringing the Warrior home has it merits. However, I would definitely move him further NW at least once, I feel info we will get from moving onto that hill is very valuable
yuris125 Wrote:I would prefer Scout SE, then next turn SW-SE; then all tiles north of the capital will be revealed. S gives no advantage over SE, but SE gives more information this turn.
Quote:Mackoti: bingo
we found gold
i think its worth going setler at size 2 Seven: oho
it's close? Mackoti: we can have cows
deer
and gold in first ring Seven: wow that's great Mackoti: and thera at size 3 produce workers Seven: sounds good Mackoti: i realy think its worth the fact we will have to wait a litle
and the city its not that optimal
but that gold will get us fast
to techs
wich we need
thats the way i think
and here we talk about normal speed
so its even more important Seven: yup Mackoti: posted screenshot Seven: cool Mackoti: so what you think about a second city there?
will work deer
cow and gold
i found it good Seven: yeah, it looks strong
before seeing gold I was thinking between ivory and cow Mackoti: at size 3 will be good to get workers Seven: but that is worse
yeah Mackoti: he has mainly production Seven: so you think worker-warrior-settler? Mackoti: i want setler asap
from capitol
but we ned a wariour
need
and we need to see when we need minig for hold
gold Seven: yeah
do we need to road to get a trade route? Mackoti: yes
the borders dont touch Seven: k
I suppose we need a road in each border
or just 1 road
in between Mackoti: but gold will compensate for a while
and having 3 resource its good
i think
teching can be very slow on normal Seven: I bet we can get AH-wheel-Mining
build a road there
I want 2 free beakers Mackoti: he he
me too
usualy its worth to setle very close
but gold and deer changes the situation a bit
the reward will be big Mackoti: i think we can start directly a worker
there after we plant
we have
3 production
1 food tile
or we can grow the city directly
we need to do some tryes Seven: well I did a try just now
tech comes plenty early
even doing wheel pottery mining
worker also has enough time
to build the roads
I am not sure it's the best spot though
since we are fin and exp for cheap granaries, it's really easy to grow onto river grass cottages
which are really strong
2 cottages are as good as that gold
I think we want to expand for food and happy and grow a lot
So I did a bit of a sim. I synced growth with warrior completion after settler by working FP, PFH, deer, deer, pasture, pasture, pasture for 22f and 15h. Then directly into settler while teching wheel-pottery-mining. Settler takes 2 turns to reach the deer/gold/cow site and 3 roads are laid already so we get trade routes immediately. THat site costs a painful $3 in maintenance immediately.
Is it best? No idea. My impression while playing was this: holy crap, we have 30h granaries and can grow onto FIN riverside grassland cottages. Let's just get food and happiness to go with that and we are good.
My gut says grass river cottages are a higher priority for us. There's no techs that we're just dying to get faster are there? With all the grass river tiles surrounding us + FIN I think we'd be crazy to not prioritize working some early cottages. Plus that lets us grow much more than the gold does. THe gold will be valuable yeah, but my feeling is it wouldn't be valuable enough for it to warrant reaching to settle that first. The commerce bonus is slightly counteracted by distance maintenance anyways, not to mention opportunity costs associated with it.
The flip side is there's forests and double first ring food and really that's what we need the most. We can easily chop out granary and not be dependent on border pops.
I still belive , that city its beter , and goldmine will gave us 8 gold , and working the cow, the deer and gold and city center will have 8 production , and for expansive worker will be 10 and with 2 food from cow and 1 from deer will have 13 towards worker so 5 tun worker gaining like 8 comerce too, not bad i may say.
But anyway the specilaists in micro are kyan and seven so they will have last word in this.
