Planetfall PBEM 2

[Maniac]

One of my goals for Planetfall was to have a wide variety of starting positions, but also offer the tools to make the best of that environment. Yes, there are ridges that impede movement, but there are also chopper units which circumvent that movement restriction. It's up to the player to recognize what are the best tools to deal with his situation to reach his goal. That's what strategy and player skill is IMO.

You could have answered "but even with choppers the situation is still uneven, as siege tanks are better for a rush." I would then reply by asking if you'd also want to remove all fungus from around starting positions, as siege tanks have a -50% penalty in fungus. Where does it end? If we'd all end up with some identical idyllic starting position only consisting of rainy terrain and a river, things would be perfectly balanced, but you'd also miss out on 90% of the gameplay variety the mod offers.

[spellman]

One of my goals for Planetfall was to have a wide variety of starting positions, but also offer the tools to make the best of that environment. Yes, there are ridges that impede movement, but there are also chopper units which circumvent that movement restriction. It's up to the player to recognize what are the best tools to deal with his situation to reach his goal. That's what strategy and player skill is IMO.

You could have answered "but even with choppers the situation is still uneven, as siege tanks are better for a rush." I would then reply by asking if you'd also want to remove all fungus from around starting positions, as siege tanks have a -50% penalty in fungus. Where does it end? If we'd all end up with some identical idyllic starting position only consisting of rainy terrain and a river, things would be perfectly balanced, but you'd also miss out on 90% of the gameplay variety the mod offers.

The question isn't variety or idyllic situations. The question is whether there a reasonable variety of decisions to make that are roughly fair.

For example, in BtS, not having Horses or Copper is a HUGE problem. Sure you can turtle up with archers and spears, survive, and pray for another player to help you, but Chariots and Axes will simply choke you and you had no chance in a direct conflict. Similarly, early food resources are a huge multiplier since big cities in BtS = more tiles worked = more stuff can be done. Planetfall this is arguably less of an issue since early game sometimes you don't want to draw the ire of the planet too soon, but still a serious factor.

Variety and viability is good. Mirrored starts are somewhat boring even if they are "fair". However, you still see strongly divergent strategy on a well designed, but mirrored, map (See PBEM 35). But letting one player have 5 strong cities holed up in a very defensible position while the others struggle to get 3 cities up while watching for a backstab forces people's hands.

People have strong aversion to feeling like they got screwed by the map. This may be irrational (surely every start is winnable, just some are harder than others), but everyone wants to feel like they have the ability to choose a strategy and have a viable continuum of choices and not straightjacketed into a certain path. They want to be able to play and exploit their start, and not feel like their start controls them.


So, doing a quick check to make sure there are not completely broken starts is probably a good idea imo. No major changes so the starts are still very asymmetric, but just try to avoid huge advantages for a few players. I can help look over a map, but I'm not nearly skilled enough to trust myself to make final calls. Especially since I've only gone through 1 or 2 Planetfall SP games.


EDIT: I'd say remove those ridges from the screenshot. Taking a page from StarCraft, it's not maps that prevent rushes. It's player choices that prevent rushes. And some maps are more conducive to rushes than others. But I wouldn't do other major re-landscaping.

[Sareln]

So. What still needs to be done here in order to get started?

[Mardoc]

So. What still needs to be done here in order to get started?

We need a timezone/playing time from Sian, along with a decision between Yang and Domai. More votes on diplomacy style.

And...either someone's arm twisted to balance a map for us, or the first player to load up the settings and hit 'go'

[Iskender]

Spellman offered to take a look at the map. I think removing obvious imbalances, if there are any, should do.

I'm for open diplo and a council thread like in PF1.

[Sareln]

Open Diplo & Council Thread as in PF1. Is my preference.

[spellman]

Spellman offered to take a look at the map. I think removing obvious imbalances, if there are any, should do.

Oh dear, what have I gotten myself into...

Do we have finalized turn order? Found civ settings in a previous Maniac post.

[Maniac]

Sian doesn't seem to visit this site often. Does anyone know if Sian was a regular and quick player in the previous PBEMs he participated in? I'd prefer if we could have a turn a day in the beginning as in Plf PBEM1.

If Sian doesn't show up soon, I guess we should start with four, or have another fifth if they volunteer in the near future.

[Sareln]

Sian doesn't seem to visit this site often. Does anyone know if Sian was a regular and quick player in the previous PBEMs he participated in? I'd prefer if we could have a turn a day in the beginning as in Plf PBEM1.

If Sian doesn't show up soon, I guess we should start with four, or have another fifth if they volunteer in the near future.

He's still playing his PBEM35 turns in good time, so I think we should wait a bit longer for him.

[Maniac]

Could you perhaps send him a message in-game in PBEM35?