About balancing

[FrancoK]

When a game is balanced?

Let's try talking about simple games first.

An ancient game was "morra" and it have a lot of variants, let's start with the simplest version of it.

Two players, one choose Odd (like 1,3,5,...), the other choose Even (like 2,4,6,...) they both chose at the same time to show their own hand showing zero to five fingers.

If the sum of the finger is odd, then the Odd player wins, otherwise the Even player wins.

The game is quite simple, it is know all over the world and is fair.

The player have one "hand" with 6 different units (from 0 to 5 fingers), no unit is better than another.

The game is balanced (every player has a 50% chance to win)

Now let's see a more complex version of morra, also called Rock, Paper and Scissors.

Every player can chose to play Paper (five fingers), Scissor (2 fingers) or Rock (no finger).

Paper wins against Rock, Rock wins against Scissors, Scissors wins against Paper.

So every player has 3 units (Rock, Paper and Scissors) and each chose the unit to use when they play.

Is Scissors balanced with Paper? No, Scissors always wins.
Is Paper balanced with Rock? No, Paper always wins.
Is Rock balanced with Scissors? No, Rock always wins.

Is the game balanced? Yes!
Every player have 50% chance to win.


Master of magic is way more complex, but let's take a small sample of it.

Remove everything in the game and leave 3 units at Elite level:
High Men Paladin
Dark Elf Warlock
High Elf Longbowman

Now imagine you can create a combat where you can chose one of the unit and fight against an opponent that do the same.

Let's see how the combat will develop:
High Men Paladin attacks Dark Elf Warlock
Paladin will get no damage from Warlock, reach W. in 3 moves and kills the unit, getting a small damage.

Dark Elf Warlock attacks High Elf Longbowman
Warlock is immune to missiles from Longbowman and kills the unit in 1 or 2 moves, getting no damage at the end of the combat.

High Men Paladin attacks High Elf Longbowman
Longbowman hit from distance Paladin and kills the unit in 2 or 3 moves, getting some damage.

As you can see the Warlock against the Longbowman is a clear victory, while the other one are victories anyway, but with a small damage sustained by the winning unit.


Now we can see a similarity with Rock, Scissors and Paper?

Every unit has an big advantage against another and a great disadvantage versus the other.

But the game is balanced, even if the units are not.


Of course MoM is more complex, but the bottom line is: no standard unit is better than all others. And every unit is strong against a particular category of units and weak against another category.

The fact a single unit can kill 8 other units or is immune to a particular attack shouldn't bother us, as far as the bottom like is valid.

[Asfex]

When a game is balanced?
...
Of course MoM is more complex, but the bottom line is: no standard unit is better than all others.

So, is adamantium war troll is not better than troll spearmen? No,of couse. But the analytic solution is complex, but possible.
Also, your example is not compare the cost of units.
To avoid the complexity of the analitic solution there is more pleasure practical way:
The widest expirience opinion is 'races is balanced, if the chances to win is not depend of the choosen race', assume, you can choose the wizard picks for this race before start play,and play extreme wisely,and your opponents also.

[kyrub]

Is Scissors balanced with Paper? No, Scissors always wins.
Is Paper balanced with Rock? No, Paper always wins.
Is Rock balanced with Scissors? No, Rock always wins.

...
Every player have 50% chance to win.

Strange, in my country, the player has only 33% winning chance.
Must have different rules.

[FrancoK]

Strange, in my country, the player has only 33% winning chance.
Must have different rules.

Eheheh, I didn't consider a tie (we make a new "combat" if a tie is the result).

Let's me rephrase it:

Is the game balanced? Yes!
Every player have the same chance to win.

Better?


The important point is the game can be balanced even if the single units are not.

[Asfex]

Is the game balanced? Yes!
Every player have the same chance to win.

Better?

Yes. But note:each choice is balanced.
The difference is: let imagine the players cannot choice paper. Is that game balanced? Yes. Are all choices balanced? No, becouse scissors cannot win,but rock-can.
Are all players balanced?yes,it can choose rock equally.

[FrancoK]

Yes. But note:each choice is balanced.
The difference is: let imagine the players cannot choice paper. Is that game balanced? Yes. Are all choices balanced? No, becouse scissors cannot win,but rock-can.
Are all players balanced?yes,it can choose rock equally.

Exactly!

So, in the teared down example, if you choose High Men you can only play Paladin, but with Paladin you can conquer Dark Elves and so play Paladin or Warlock and finally, with Warlock, you can beat Longbowman and conquer High Elves.

I agree with you Asfex, to allow all players get all the available races, it is important to let as much as possible all the races start at the beginning of the game.