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**SevenSpirits** · July 27th, 2012, 13:28

mostly_harmless Wrote:Another option would be to grab the two calendar resources by going for an early Calendar tech, also allowing the Mausoleum.

Out of curiosity, why would we (urgently) need additional happiness for an early academy? We have the two bonus tiles to work and then two floodplains and two riverside grasslands. Those will be the main contributors for commerce and are covered by the 6 happy cap.

mh

Those are kickass tiles even without any multipliers. Once we start adding a library and academy, even more marginal tiles become incredibly strong (i.e. better than grass river cottages in other cities).

darrelljs · July 27th, 2012, 13:57

SevenSpirits Wrote:Those are kickass tiles even without any multipliers. Once we start adding a library and academy, even more marginal tiles become incredibly strong (i.e. better than grass river cottages in other cities).

Yup

. Also working two Scientists instead of production tiles will slow down expansion. You need to really put the multiplier to work to offset that. 34 turns could have gone to grassland farms for whipping...that's approximately enough food to whip an extra Settler. In the expansion phase of the game I typically prefer to work production tiles, since the techs you need to expand aren't that hard to come by. For me at least you need a lot of beakers to offset a Settler. Then again if we put those beakers towards the right tech that gets us the right goody...

Gotta love a game where the tradeoffs and possibilities are so rich smile

.

Darrell

kjn · July 27th, 2012, 14:51

And since people are discussing the 1W of gold PH placement again, here's an updated micro sim for that one as well. It's nearly indistinguishable in worker turns from Seven's plan: only loss in worker action is on T32, when the two workers goes to the forest 1W of the corn instead of roading the tile 1E of the deer.

Mansa's Muse is 1t slower in growing, of course, and the workers will have a harder time to go back eastwards. There is also a slight loss in commerce, since AO lost a cottage turn (worked deer instead), but has more hammers and food instead. This also means that Seven's optimised builds for 1W of corn are off.

I won't bother with screen shots, here's the save instead.

I also simmed out the warrior movements, and we should have plenty of time to scout the area to our south before we need our warriors for settler escorts. We need to take care and pre-barbbust with the warriors on T30-32, though. And get one of the warriors back to AO on T36.

The barb situation in the sandbox is pretty horrendous, though.

kjn · July 27th, 2012, 15:10

darrelljs Wrote:Yup . Also working two Scientists instead of production tiles will slow down expansion. You need to really put the multiplier to work to offset that. 34 turns could have gone to grassland farms for whipping...that's approximately enough food to whip an extra Settler. In the expansion phase of the game I typically prefer to work production tiles, since the techs you need to expand aren't that hard to come by. For me at least you need a lot of beakers to offset a Settler. Then again if we put those beakers towards the right tech that gets us the right goody...

Do note that Mansa's Muse can't get two grassland farms (unless you count the corn) until Civil Service, no matter if we place it 1E of corn or 1E of gold.

Anyway, we need to get the production and pop before we can run the scientists. It'll be an interesting question if it's more efficient to slowbuild the library and run scientists then, or whip the library and wait for the pop to grow back before running scientists.

darrelljs · July 27th, 2012, 15:42

kjn Wrote:It'll be an interesting question if it's more efficient to slowbuild the library and run scientists then, or whip the library and wait for the pop to grow back before running scientists.

Three (or two) pop whip the Library when the city will grow back to size four the following turn. Or chop it, that will certainly be the fastest approach although not the best use of the forest hammers IMO.

kjn Wrote:And since people are discussing the 1W of gold PH placement again

I haven't looked at the map in a long time, but I favor 1W of the X, where X is the tile that let's us share the Deer smile

. Any time spent simulating something else is time better spent toast

.

Darrell

Sullla · July 27th, 2012, 21:05

1W of the gold doesn't let us share the deer tile... I think we've been over this many times before. By all means keep going ahead and simming things out as desired, but I think we've hit the point of minimal returns. I truly do not think we're going to do better than what SevenSpirits put in post #192 of this thread.

kjn

Seven, I found another small thing in your sim. On T21 you have citizen 3 working the FPH while building the worker, but I think that will generate 5 overflow (3 after EXP bonus is removed). By switching to the flood plains on T21 instead of T22 we get 4 overflow (3 after EXP bonus is removd), which will mean a gain of 1 commerce with no loss of overflow hammers.

I also though I should try whipping the settler instead of slow-building it. Looking forward from T40 to the next city, I thought three workers would be too little, and I'd really like another warrior as well. So without further ado:

Some pictures:

Note the change of tile assignment on T21. By switching from the FPH to the flood plains then and not T22, I think we will lose one overflow hammer instead of two, and gain a commerce. Can you please double-check this Seven?

On T46 we will have four warriors (with one more at 6/15), four workers, a granary next turn in AO, and one on the way in MM. Mansa Musa will also grow next turn, and can either take back the deer or use a newly built plains cottage.

Research is of course very tentative, as are post-chop worker actions.

Depending on what new map knowledge we have, the placement of copper and horses, and how early we want to go for the GLH, we can decide on the placement of the settler on T45.

novice · July 29th, 2012, 09:06

Five overflow hammers from an expansive worker are rounded down to 4, not 3.

kjn · July 29th, 2012, 10:36

novice Wrote:Five overflow hammers from an expansive worker are rounded down to 4, not 3.

Sullla · July 29th, 2012, 18:25

I think a couple of others have mentioned this as well, but I don't like whipping that second settler. SevenSpirits has it set up with perfect overflow from the warrior build to complete in 7 turns (T47) and that can be further sped up with a chop or two. We can get the settler out faster, but would it really help us? We wouldn't have the worker labor in place to support a third city much earlier than roughly T45 anyway. Remember, the biggest limitation on this map in the early game is commerce, not food or production. We need a really good reason to be whipping off of Financial + floodplains + cottages in the early game without a granary. Definitely at some point, but I'm not convinced that we come out ahead until we get the granary in place. That likely means settler #3, not settler #2.

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