[SPOILERS] Stonehenge First: scooter's thread

[scooter]

First post traditional filler. As I always seem to do, I'll just post webcomics to fill space. This time, Olympic Edition.





Real post coming up after I complete Stonehenge.

[scooter]

So why Gandhi? Really, my analysis here is pretty much the same as it was before 34V. The only two things that have changed:

1) No city limits
Ramifications - Everyone will have around 4 cities instead of 3. Warfare is actually useful because you can gain from it. This means going the military route isn't too bad. Finally, we can afford to be a bit less choosy about our city locations.

2) No artist bombing
Ramifications - Well, artists are no longer brokenly strong. Culture still matters here though, so settling an artist is still quite powerful.

So, traits? I still agree with my analysis last game that PHI, SPI, CHM, and IND are the best traits. Roughly in that order, but not exactly. IND is weaker than those, 4, but choosing it gives you the inside track on the most important wonder for this setup - the Pyramids. Going first is an advantage too, as grabbing IND with the #1 choice dissuades the other players from taking IND. You take IND because it gives you the inside track at Pyramids if, you know, you don't build Stonehenge first. If I'm picking 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and IND has already dropped, I don't want IND, because it's no longer a "free Mids" coupon. So #1 pick gives you a free shot at locking down IND. So surely I should just take IND and Do It Right this time right?

No thanks. There are quite a few reasons for avoiding IND this time around:

1) Rushing is a valid choice this time. Cyneheard's Rome thing was interesting, but ultimately IMO a bad choice because he couldn't do anything with that land. In this shadow (34S?), you can keep anything you take. If you can settle 3 cities to get you to 4 and then go conquer 3-4 more, more power to you! A very valid choice here is to go Alex of Rome again, wait for somebody to build Pyramids, then go take it. If I was picking towards the back of the snake, I would very likely try to angle for exactly that. So this makes gunslinging for Mids a bit dangerous.

2) National Wonders are slightly nerfed here. Not badly so, but slightly. One of the more underrated parts of IND is that the bonus also goes to National Wonders. This isn't the reason you pick IND, but it's useful and another very mild nerf.

3) We can settle more cities. More specifically, there is a marble/stone site between all players. This had much crappier surrounding terrain last time, and therefore nobody could afford to burn one of their three city locations on this spot. HOWEVA, we don't have that dilemma anymore. Is an IND civ really going to be much faster to Pyramids than a SPI civ who settles for Stone? I say no. Because Stone and Marble are much easier to get into play here, the value of IND plummets. This is probably the most signficiant reason.



So then what? No IND means take PHI. Just take PHI. While you're at it, take SPI. This is the ultimate in flexibility. Need to settle an artist to control a border? Pump out an artist real fast. Want a couple Academies? No problem. Want to swap out of GPP mode and get some high XP units? Again, not a problem. So I take Gandhi. It's the most flexible combo for sure, and I think in a vacuum it's the best for this setup.

[Bigger]

This looks like a fun setup. I'll ded-lurk you for as long as you are entertaining .

[scooter]

This looks like a fun setup. I'll ded-lurk you for as long as you are entertaining .

Good to know I'll have a ded-lurker for the first few turns.

Anyways, not quite sure I fully understand Pindicator's Zara pick. CRE is useful for cultural battles, but there's other ways to get that culture, and it'll really lose steam after about 50 turns. It's a null trait after T100 which is a key time for this kind of game IMO. Also not sure I understand the value of ORG when he'll have a max of 5 cities. Well yes Toroidal does mean maintenance is a big deal, but the general feel of these games is that cheaper buildings is less valuable because you have fewer cities and therefore less saved hammers. ORG is awesome when you need to build a dozen Courthouses, not so much when you need to build 3. It may be slightly better than FIN here (maybe?), but I just can't see either of these traits measuring up to PHI, CHM, or SPI.

We'll see. I could be underestimating the effect of removing the 3CC rule. Mostly curious to see what other 2 leaders drop next.

[scooter]

Well then, apparently everybody values Creative a lot more than me. That probably means I'm wrong.

[scooter]

This is the part where I'd be expecting Rome from Commodore, but he said in chat he didn't really want to use Rome again so soon after the duel. So, I dk? France maybe? That would make a lot of sense - Agg drafted Musketeers is scarier than Praetorians IMO.

[scooter]

Need to figure out my civ. Things I'm considering in no particular order:

1) Mali. There are forest hills on crucial points of the map and your starting Skirmishers get cool promotions making them practically invincible. These were a PAIN to deal with in 34v, and I'd like to carry that unhappiness over to someone else. The downside? Mali's starting techs are brutal and UB is fairly bleh. [later edit] Wait, they have Wheel/Mining? That's better than I thought.

2) Babylon - Mini-Mali? Eh. Bowman doesn't get me too hyped.

3) Maya - Cheap Ball Courts is especially good here where you'll want to be able to go vertical with your cities. Also lets you avoid Monarchy for awhile which is cool. Mysticism/Mining is not very great, but I'll want an early religion probably.

4) Egypt - War Chariots are awesome, techs are good, etc etc.

[scooter]

So much for that list right?

It came down to Mali vs India for me.

Mali:
+ This map is BUILT for Skirmishers. Just trust me on this one. Promoted Skirmishers on forest hills are invincible until Modern Armor, and this map has forest hills everywhere
+ Slightly better starting techs (Min/Wheel)
- Krill took this exact combo, and copying it feels lame

India:
+ Fast Worker has a bit more mileage here economically without the 3CC rule.
+ FW's are great tactically, both offensively and for choke escaping.
- Gross starting techs (Mining/Myst)

In the end, I chose India for originality. Commodore just passed up on Rome and France in favor of Greece in the name of fun, so I chose India. I do think I'll get solid mileage out of the fast worker here, so I'm happy with this choice.

[SevenSpirits]

In the end, I chose India for originality.

That's QotM material right there.

[scooter]

That's QotM material right there.

I honestly was NOT trying to say that ironically. Too funny.