Team Arenas team

[Hawkmoon]

... when I try to correct the "WarBlade hates PvP" position/accusation/assumption/lie.

Dude, I've never seen you join us for PvP, in spite of multiple invitations when we were getting GvG going. If you want to, great (and you can make snide comments about the frequency of my dirt naps) - but I just wasn't expecting it.

[FoxBat]

Dude, I've never seen you join us for PvP, in spite of multiple invitations when we were getting GvG going. If you want to, great (and you can make snide comments about the frequency of my dirt naps) - but I just wasn't expecting it.

This is really it's own thread, which has happened before.... I'm not sure if we should bog down this one with the details/potential argument...

It is a fair question whether following something close to a team build is required here. The Sunday field made me wonder if you can get away with more. My experience trying this with the Basin though was "lose, lose, lose, alright let's try this team build, win, win, win." Warmonger's is so overpowered...

[Lurker Wyrm]

This is what I was thinking to counter the new monk spike meta:

D/A
Reaper's Sweep, Crippling Sweep, Mystic Sweep, Imbue Health*, Fleeting Stability, Heart of Fury, Disrupting Dagger, Res Sig

P/W
IAS skill**, Vicious Attack, Wild Throw, "GftE!", "Fall Back!", "Brace Yourself!", Angelic Bond, Res Sig

Me/E
Migraine, Clumsiness, Conjure Phantasm, Drain Enchant, Inspired Enchant, GoLE, Ward Stability*, Ward Melee, Res Sig

Mo/A****

*Imbue is there to help with the pressure on the monk, can be taken out for more offense or whatever.

**Frenzy if you know how to use it, otherwise use Aggressive Refrain.

***Don't forget a double 20/20 set for earth magic when you use wards.

****Monk is standard TA fare but with Aura of stability. Another possiblility is to bring Healing Seed and throw that on the para whenever it's ready since he'll be maintaining Angelic Bond on everyone.

[mucco]

Maintaining Angelic Bond on everyone looks like a waste of time (8s over the 30 of the skill), I never played paragon but... And it doesn't save the para from a spike against him.

If you had a decent monk in the team, an off-monk aura would be the ideal solution. Says the Guru forum. I'm unfortunately bad at catching spikes and more often than not I hover around a 300 ping.

Also, probably Warmonger's weapon helped us so much the last time I played, that I'm not sure we can abandon it.

I like having mesmers in the team though

[FoxBat]

It's actually 6s because you don't put bond on himself. Though you have to factor in aftercast. My main concern is that it's interrupt-fodder vs every team that isn't monkspike, and the physical-buffs are more optimal when running 3 people with weapons. Can give it a try though.

A fast word of healing can stop a spike, but ultimately you need some disruption and snare to beat that team. Migrane on the Divert Hexes guy can work if you keep it covered, but you also need something to interrupt said 2 second spells. (I've seen power return used.)

Another thought is Mo/W. Well-timed balanced stance will prevent monk from being targeted, plus immunity to knockdown is generally strong in TA, as is the extra shield armor. If a para is around, you also get access to soldier's defense which is quite good.

Such a Mo/W as a bonder is a cheap solution to Monkspike, and the rit/ranger meta isn't so hot on enchantment removal. Risky when you run into mesmers and shatter assassins though, or mass degen teams.

I don't like the derv at all but I may not have played enough things that aren't Melandru. It should have a run boost at least.

[Lurker Wyrm]

off-monk aura

That's what "Brace Yourself!" is for. The reasoning for having an anti-knockdown on every character is so you don't have to worry about being fast enough to catch it, you can just maintain something anti-kd on each person. If you're not facing monkspike then you don't need to worry about it, but if you are, the only damage they put out is during that spike so you don't need to worry about the energy.

Steady Stance on a war or a/w is another way to go.

but you also need something to interrupt said 2 second spells.

I just realized the mes bar didn't have any interrupts on it. That's a bit of an oops right there.

My main concern is that it's interrupt-fodder vs every team that isn't monkspike

On non-monkspike, what you do is put it on the monk only at first and then start using it on someone else if need be. Generally, you won't need to maintain it on a war or derv because they have better armor, and if people are going to attack them, then that just makes the monking easier. It has to be interrupted by something that can target non-spells, which is usually a ranger, and those generally sit on monks.

I don't like the derv at all but I may not have played enough things that aren't Melandru. It should have a run boost at least.

Like I said, work in progress. Only reason I said derv to begin with was because of Fleeting Stability, had forgotten about Steady Stance at the time.

[FoxBat]

This weekend is Arena weekend, double faction + glad points! There are sure to be more n00b teams for us to gloat over too!

As for Monkspike which is turning up more and more. Anti-KD on a (decent) monk and a good interrupter seem to be enough to stop the spike. Wyrm brought up the tech of Divine Intervention if we want to be lazy even, with recharge equal to shadow walk. What is needed to actually win though is mass/frequent snaring to overload their removal. Solutions include Cripshot, Grasping Earth on either monk or melee, or possibly an illusion mesmer with the buffed Burden spells. (Migrane is sure to give them trouble too!)

[Lurker Wyrm]

How about we try the standard build, but with a shattering assassin as the melee and an earth ele instead of the r/p. Ward Stability for monkspike, Earthquake and Obs. Flame for damage pressue, along with Glyph of Energy so you don't exhaust yourself dry. There's also the Ebon Hawk -> Stoning Combo, or it could go partial air and bring blind and shell shock.

Maybe:
Iron Mist, Gale, Ash Blast, Ward of Stability, Ward Melee, Glyph of Renewal/Energy, Earth Attunement, Res Sig

Might not need the rit for that, so you could run a shadow prison sin or something as well... Oh, wait, Shadow Prison stinks now, make that Dark Prison, perhaps with Golden Skull Strike.

[FoxBat]

What I haven't said very clearly is I think over-investing in immunity to monkspike isn't worth it. Snaring is what is vital. Even if you take a few deaths, if you can keep them pinned it won't matter as they will waste all their energy trying to stay alive. As they like running away, wards are a bad choice against them. People who play something as slow as monkspike are more willing to wait out a draw than most of us will be. Also it needs to be spammable snare since they have removal, which means things like iron mist may be a start but they need to be supplimented with cripple or cover hexes.


Obs flame isn't much of a pressure skill. Playing a build with a bit of a coordinated spike is an idea though.

Shadow prison is fine, just that everyone's favorite double offhand/dual combo doesn't work anymore.

I'll see if I can dig up a hex build as an alternative snaring approach to fall back on.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Well, I've been trying to figure out ways to fit the ward ele in without sacrificing too much. The part of that ele that's for countering monkspike is the ward of stability, everything else is in there for general team build. No, it's not dealing much damage at all, but it's more of a defensive character anyways since I'm trying to find something that can replace the rit without sacrificing too much.

I suggested Ward of Stability because if we're going to stick with the idea of 2 melee (a mistake, imo, but no one seems to be willing to run anything else) then we're not going to be able to defeat monkspike without something like ward of stability. And the idea behind Ward of Stability isn't to beat them, but to make them draw. I don't care about running around and chasing them, if they're doing something cheap and cheasy, why bother wasting time chasing after them with a build that has no movement control in it?

I know you don't want to waste too many skill slots just to counter one build, but it's a pretty obvious fact that we're going to go up against it a lot since everyone who wants cheap glad points will be running it just like a lot of 1200+ guilds ran ritspike, until it got nerfed, for cheap champ points during the double weekends.

If we want to actually beat monkspike, then we need a completely different build. My suggestion would be a water/ward ele (yes, you effing need ward stability), a cripshot, and an illusion mes.