[SPOILERS] PB1- Mardoc buys a can of paint for Thoth and Ellimist

[Thoth]

And that's going to bag us a few animals + some exp on random units as the suicide Scouts die softening up the Spiders and Griffons. 10 SA scouts should be enough to take down the griffon + a spider or two. Maybe a bit more if we're lucky.

[Mardoc]

if we're lucky.

And what sign have you seen of *that* so far this game?

[Thoth]

And what sign have you seen of *that* so far this game?

Bloody well none. :mad:

But 10 SA Scouts should still bag us some fun toys (and some exp on some random units thanks to Spirit Guide )

So http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...5rEI#t=99s

(listen untill at least 1:53 )


And to everyone who has ever voted in a FFH setup thread to ban huts and Dungeons "because they introduce too much randomness"


(NSFW)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK4fJhbRL...page#t=37s

[Thoth]

Went ahead and played t36.

Tweaked the Worker micro plans for the Orcs and the Elohim.

Next Orc city due to be built t41.

Ending turn for the Elohim produced this:

W00T!

Tech back on next turn. :D


Looking around at eot I spotted this awefullness:

Free Gems for Plako.

I hate the RNG this game. :mad:

And score increase indicates a new tech for Plako and Co.

Elohim worker moves:

t37 finish farm
t38 move workers to indicated forest tiles
t39/40 road
t41 move to marked tile
Eot 41 mining should finish, but I might be off by a turn.
t42:If mining is in: Farm x2 workers.
If not: Road.
t43: Farm
t44: If we didn't road on t41, road now. Otherwise farm. Settler and 2 warrior escort to the city site.
t45: Found Rum. 2 workers to Corn, Farm. Rum starts Relequary at 1h/turn and puts 3 food into the box.
t46: Farm completes. Rum puts 6 food into the box. R at 2/40 h
t47: Road Corn. Rum puts another 6 food into the box and grows to size 2 at eot 15/14. r at 3/40h
t48: Both workers move to the Pre-Farmed Forest and complete the farm. Rum now 1/15 food and +8 fpt, r at 12/40 h.

[Mardoc]

Nothing much newsworthy this turn, just followed the laid out worker micro. The only thing of interest was the spotting of our wild orcish brethren - a warrior by the Elohim and a goblin down by the Calabim. This ought to actually make it easier to survive the wilderness, I think, but it does mean we're going to have to keep on our toes and build more garrisons.

[Thoth]

t41 played.

Settled new Orc city of Old Speckled Hen. :D

Put one turn into Corn farm and moved two additional workers to the Corn. We'll finish the Corn Farm t42. Two workers should then move 1t E and farm t43/44 and road t45. Then move to the other bare river grass tile to the north on t 46 and start the farm.

Remaining worker moves to the FGH to the north on t43 and starts a Mine on t44. Mine completes on t48.

We're 3 beakers short on Mining at eot 41. If we use the Calabim to finish up the tech *before* we play t42 for the Orcs and Elohim we'll have Mining available. The Orcs *really* want to be able to start a mine on t42 (on the roaded PH). We can finish it on t43 with the Worker from KIPA while the new worker from NBA moves to the FGH to the West and starts either chopping or mining.

Elohim workers should road the tile they are on t41 and then put worker turns into the farm (same tile). They'll be in position to start the Corn farm t45 once we've built the new Elohim city.


Orc maint costs are now up to 9gpt (6 city, 2 unit and 1 civic). We'll want to run 100% cash for t42 in order to fund Masonry.

I'm currently leaning heavily in favour of Edu/Col after Masonry. Aristo farms for the Orcs are going to help a lot. Plus with edu/Col we can swap the Vamps into Aristo/nationhood/apprenticeship with a single turn of anarchy.

Oh, and Governor's Mannors.

Col is 750 beakers beyond Edu.

Bronze is 938b
AH is 422
HBR is 938

Warfare is 750 (plus Bronze)
Construction is 938


Way of the Earthmother is 938
Hunting is 702
Way of the Forests is 938


We might have a shot at founding Kill'em orf if we head there straight after Masonry. We're doing well in the GNP demos (not great other than our top GNP guys, the Elohim ) and Illians can't contribute beakers towards religious techs so we have the edge over the Gnome/Clown/Frosty team.

WotEM would ease our gold woes considerably (and the Orcs can provide a GPriest for the Shrine quite easily with a PT and Temple of Kill'em orf in KIPA)

And it also enables some Warrens/SoK shenannigans (both KIPA and OSH are food rich and hammer poor, some GK hammers fed into Warrens SoKs would do wonders for getting Warrens down in these cities )

Also, I'm thinking the next Settler pair from the orcs should be Orc. There are two solid early sites to the west of orcdom (the Double Cotton site which sucks for food but can produce 16 commerce per turn at size 4 with Aristo, 12 commerce per turn without) and the c? site next to the wet corn. A monument in this city (which has available hills in it's inner ring + Corn and 2 farmable river grass) would grab another couple of hills and a pair of peaks that would greatly increase our passive LOS in that area.







So IOW, I'm in favour of a couple of econ techs after Masonry. either Edu/Col or WotEM. Then head for the war techs. :D

[Mardoc]

Glad to hear our settlement went smoothly this time! At least I assume we didn't have a warrior eaten?

Elohim workers should road the tile they are on t41 and then put worker turns into the farm (same tile). They'll be in position to start the Corn farm t45 once we've built the new Elohim city.

Where does the gold mine fit into that scheme? The one that gets run through an Academy? We might (hopefully) need to make room in the workers' busy schedule for copper mining too, and silk plantationing.

As for tech: Education is a war tech, too, in v8. I'm in favor of Edu/CoL; we can do almost as much with Kilmorph without the shrine as with. But the sooner we get aristofarms and cottages and Manors, the better off we'll be. I'd much rather pay for a new city's maintenance with a couple aristofarms than with a Kilmorph spread. And on a map this big, we need to bias even more toward hammers than usual, since we've room for a million settlers.

Also, an FYI, I'll be on vacation from the 23rd to the 27th. I expect you two can play without me just fine, just be aware.

[Mardoc]

Ellimist and I played the turn last night (so you can blame any micro mistakes on him, and any brilliant plays on me :neenernee). The primary focus was on how to do things despite all the barbs - we went from just animals a couple turns ago to 'holy crap, they're everywhere!'.

So, the orcs traded a warrior for a barb warrior, and then worked on a grass farm instead of the bronze so to stay out of potential barb threat range. The Elohim were totally messed up, with an orc warrior in the middle of the work area who'd pillaged a road. We planted warriors in such a way as to still be able to get the settler to site on T44, assuming the barb doesn't attack and win at low odds. And the Calabim were the easiest, swatting a goblin and preparing for city establishment.

About the Calabim, two notes. First, we allowed them to grow into unhappiness, because they're currently building a worker and we probably can get them wines before they're done with foodhammer builds. Second, Ellimist proposes an alteration in the next city site, from c! to c?



Pros: the city gets reagents, a grass farm instead of a plains farm, keeps access to the floodplains and plains mine shared. And doesn't overlap BFC with the orcs as much, allowing both this and OSH to be stronger cities in the long run.

Cons: The city doesn't provide an automatic river trade route from the orcs to the vamps, we need a tile or two of road (outside our borders, even) to get that. On the other hand, it would still give us visibility on a 5-tile stretch, which ought to be enough to put together a road safely, and we'll want that road regardless for military purposes. And for sharing workers/settlers. We only need three tiles of road to finish connecting our networks, and we've got 5 or 6 workers in the area.

We're just about to a point where the orcs ought to be able to stop building workers, having those supplied by the Vamps, if we put in a trade road.

[Thoth]

Ellimist and I played the turn last night (so you can blame any micro mistakes on him, and any brilliant plays on me :neenernee). The primary focus was on how to do things despite all the barbs - we went from just animals a couple turns ago to 'holy crap, they're everywhere!'.

Yeah a lot of what we could do this turn was dependent on the barbs.

Sucks about the Elohim delay. Hopefully the warrior will attack (and die) so we can still found t45.

In that case the two workers should put 1 t each into farming the Forested Grass 3 of the city location on t45.

So, the orcs traded a warrior for a barb warrior, and then worked on a grass farm instead of the bronze so to stay out of potential barb threat range.

I don't like the build queue changes in NBA. We had enough overflow hammers to 1t a pair of warriors (which we need to deal with the incoming barb warrior in the east). We don't need the PT until we grow to size 7, there was plenty of time to complete it the same turn we grew.

And the Calabim were the easiest, swatting a goblin and preparing for city establishment.

Why we no have a mine completed this turn?

That's a 6 hammer tile we didn't get to work this turn.

About the Calabim, two notes. First, we allowed them to grow into unhappiness, because they're currently building a worker and we probably can get them wines before they're done with foodhammer builds.

Yeah, we'll have Wines in a couple of turns. I'm thinking we build Worker/take overflow into bloodpet/Worker/bloodpet in Reisling. Expansion city can slow build a warrior while growing to size 6 on Farms then push out some workers and or a settler.

Second, Ellimist proposes an alteration in the next city site, from c! to c?

Pros: the city gets reagents, a grass farm instead of a plains farm, keeps access to the floodplains and plains mine shared. And doesn't overlap BFC with the orcs as much, allowing both this and OSH to be stronger cities in the long run.

Cons: The city doesn't provide an automatic river trade route from the orcs to the vamps, we need a tile or two of road (outside our borders, even) to get that. On the other hand, it would still give us visibility on a 5-tile stretch, which ought to be enough to put together a road safely, and we'll want that road regardless for military purposes. And for sharing workers/settlers. We only need three tiles of road to finish connecting our networks, and we've got 5 or 6 workers in the area.

Moving the city costs us a 1f2h tile in the inner ring (whichever location we pick for the city it's going to have weak hammers) and a Forested Grass hill in the outer ring. We also don't have our workers in position to connect teh vamps to the city via road.

We'd also delay the trade connection by 3/4 turns and have to spend 4 extra worker turns on a road we don't need *yet*. 3 turns of Wines is 3 turns of another worked tile in Riesling. I don't think the longer term prospects of the shifted city are enough better than the original spot to justify the lost worker and tile turns. Plus the original location has an additional bare river grass to farm so it sets up a lot faster.


We may want to move the Elohim city 1t south onto the Forested Plains hill. That picks up the Reagents second ring plus an additional riverside grass at the cost of a second ring hill. It also picks up the Sheep.

It means moving the Silk city, but that's fine I think. We can settle that as the Calabim 4th city.

We're just about to a point where the orcs ought to be able to stop building workers, having those supplied by the Vamps, if we put in a trade road.

6 is good enough for the moment. Southern workers finish up farm, road the tile they are on t44. t45 all three move to copper and mine
t46 one moves to the FGH to start mining.

The other two workers need to be repositioned. t46 they both move to the Reagents tile. t47 they split up with one worker to each of the Forested Grass tile to the East of NBA. T48/49 chop. Chops go into warrens. Easternmost worker completes the road to Copper/Incense, western moves to Marble to start Quarry.

Workers 5 and six move to the remaining bare grasshill and the Forested Grasshill to the West of NBA (marked with r ). Both workers mine.


OSH builds two warriors while growing to size 5 at eot49 (I think we have to put t50's production in to finish the second warrior, but that's fine) then we build a 5t settler working Corn, Farm, Copper, Plains Forest and the Mined Grasshil (mine will finish t51 with the chop getting doubled into the settler). Settler should finish t55. With a road link in place we can use that settler to settle the Incence/Copper site t57.

In the meantime we can hammer out a Warrens and 4 settlers from NBA by t57 or so.

Which we won't have the worker turns to support, so the second settler pair will need to be delayed slightly in order to build a worker pair from NBA first.

looking at the number of worker turns we're going to be needing in the near future, we'll need another worker out of KIPA once we're at size 6 there and running a priest.

[Thoth]

also....tech path after Masonry.

I had a longish chat with Ellimist the other night and I've been doing some thinking as well.

I'd really like to take a run at RoK next. If we are careful to make sure the Orcs put the final beakers into it I think we have an excellent shot at landing Rok in orcdom. That gets us Gold, Spiritual Temples for happy and Gold, +2 happy in every city with RoK (Religion civic), a shrine in reasonable time for More Gold + the possibility of a GE sometime down the road.

It also gets us dirt cheap border pops in our new cities (40 h for two border pops? booheah. And some of those will be God King hammers.

In the meantime, we can continue to take advantage of Agrarian food to speed grow our new settlements (build with God King hammers) before settling into Aristocracy (which will kill our foodhammrs in Orcdom an Calabimia but by that point the commerce will be well worth it)