[SPOILER] ww15 Lurker thread - No living players allowed!

[Bigger]

well, they would have had to to role-block and kill Lewwyn. Which would have left Selrahc open to night kill Brick, and give serdoa a free scan - which woulda been Zak, anyway, getting him lynched the next day. Plus probably put a lot of suspicion on Waterbat. So yeah, letting Lewwyn kill Zak was the right move.

Im not buying it though, I think you just felt sorry for Lewwyn, and didn't want to kil him early

1. killing the stick night 1 keeps the fact that Injera was a neighbor a secret, taking a lot of heat off him
2. killing Lewwyn night 1, 2, or 3 protects Zak.

[novice]

Lewwyn had already claimed that Judaa Marr was NAP, so as far as we knew there was nothing to be gained from killing him - it would just confirm his claim. Seemed better to lynch him with our double vote, as explained earlier, or at least allow him to have some fun for once. (Cue Uberfish remark.)

When we actually did kill Lewwyn I remember thinking it was too soon, since he was in love with Waterbat and could be used to push a few mislynches first.

[Lewwyn]

Basically the village is screwed because the scum teams have control of all the private communication in this game. The only exception was Meiz and Tasunke and that was ended by Day 1. Instead the wolves get to communicate among themselves PLUS Injera gets to manipulate thestick PLUS waterbat gets to communicate with opposing faction members everyday behind the scenes. Basically the wolves controlled the flow of information throughout the game. Usually the wolves only get to coordinate within themselves but in this case they also get to control the created village network as well.

I think you underestimated that aspect of the balance.

[Gaspar]

Three comments:

Setup is anti-village. From experience, I think being scum is fun enough and I really hate these set-ups that give the village 17 extra puzzles to figure out beyond who the scum is. I didn't even follow Lewwyn's game for that reason. I know 4 people will come in after and me tell me how different it could have been if, but I think this game could have been played 100 times and 90 of them would have been planet or NAP win. That's not balanced. Balance should skew slightly towards village because that's where the majority of players are - like roughly 60% chance to win. This is all my opinion, of course.

Absolutely brilliant game by both NAP and Planet factions. Waterbat and Brick in particular amazing given their relative lack of experience. Waterbat distracted everybody 97 ways to Sunday and I still have a headache from it and Brick succeeded where most fail in terms of rolling wolf your first game. Bob is natural born scum, he plays it fantastically well. Let nothing in the first point there take away from this one - one of the best scum games we've seen.

For the love of all that is holy can we please have a vanilla game next? I like the variants but this is like 3 supercrazy games in a row.

EDIT: Crosspost with Lewwyn, who makes an excellent point.

[Injera]

speaking of that.. care to explain the Catwalk night 1 nightkill?

In addition to what novice said, Catwalk was playing much more conservatively than in previous games. Not only was that a PR sign, but it also meant we wouldn't be able to mislynch him.

The funny thing is that my first instinct on Night 1 was to kill Serdoa, but then he mentioned being busy, and I remember him justifiably saying the same thing in WW13 so I dismissed the idea. I think I mentioned it in the neighbor thread, sans the night kill part.

There's also a funny part in the wolf thread when we're hunting the "baner" during Night 2 (well before Selrahc's claim) and I narrowed it down to a list of 3 suspects and made my comments. Brick responded something along the lines of, "based on that, Selrahc then?" But we talked ourselves into someone else. It'd be a whole different game if we had "tagged" him then.

Certainly woulda been easier for you if you took care of thestick or Lewwyn early on. (and Lewwyn was right, they figured out he was H'minee before Lewwyn role-revealed).

Well, we figured out Bob was the nameseer on Day 1, he just wasn't killable. That would have solved the Lewwyn since we didn't know he had a vig shot.

[Bigger]

Lewwyn had already claimed that Judaa Marr was NAP, so as far as we knew there was nothing to be gained from killing him - it would just confirm his claim. Seemed better to lynch him with our double vote, as explained earlier, or at least allow him to have some fun for once. (Cue Uberfish remark.)

When we actually did kill Lewwyn I remember thinking it was too soon, since he was in love with Waterbat and could be used to push a few mislynches first.

well, yes, once he had killed Zak I agree it was pointless to take him out.
I guess I'm biased a bit since I made the roles, but I don't think think its much of a leap to assume that since Zak had an ability that could only be used on lewwyn, that Lewwyn probably had an ability that could only be used on Zak.

Maybe Lewwyn just role claiming H'minee and not using his safe claim confused you there, just as Brick role-claiming nerve staple confused the village <G>.

[zakalwe]

For the love of all that is holy can we please have a vanilla game next? I like the variants but this is like 3 supercrazy games in a row.

+0.9

(not sure I want a known setup, but I want it to be light on power roles)

[Rowain]

tasunke read through this - i didnt catch the lurker suspicion on me except for a) Maniac's completely nailing it on 9/2 and b) after i made the deadline mistake

I agreed with Molachs read on you (and BRick) before you made your slip.

IMO Molach deserves a mantion of Well-played villager. That he couldn't believe BRicks power to be wolfish and did push too late for his lynch is understandable.

That Bob/Selrahc did not realise waterbats switch as wolfslip is one surprise. That they didn't lynch BRicks after his poweruse to neuter Molachs nightkill immunity (which did help them too) an even biger one.

I think the really egregious mislynch was Day 1, actually. That's the day the village is strongest-

Day1 you don't have any reads In fact thats the day the village is weakest as things like 'zak/Selrahc etc doesn't seem to hunt wolves as he usual does' only become obvious after some days.


@Gaspar: Obviously the village had too few tin-foil-theories else they would have lynched waterbat and Selrahc :neenernee

[Injera]

Basically the village is screwed because the scum teams have control of all the private communication in this game. The only exception was Meiz and Tasunke and that was ended by Day 1. Instead the wolves get to communicate among themselves PLUS Injera gets to manipulate thestick PLUS waterbat gets to communicate with opposing faction members everyday behind the scenes. Basically the wolves controlled the flow of information throughout the game. Usually the wolves only get to coordinate within themselves but in this case they also get to control the created village network as well.

Crucially, though, it wasn't a village network. It was a network with the other faction except neither side realized it. I don't know if that outcome was predictable. It ended up allowing the votes to bounce around until it landed on a villager (see Brick's first non-lynch.)

[Bigger]

For the love of all that is holy can we please have a vanilla game next? I like the variants but this is like 3 supercrazy games in a row.

I'm all for it, but only if you actually sign up for it. You haven't played in said 3 supercrazy games .

My original setup did have a real mason group with Domai and one of the drones, kinda wish I had left that in and made a few other changes. ah well. Overall I think it was balanced, but it was a bit complicated which makes it hard to say for sure. If I ever run another game, I'll learn from my mistakes =).