WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Gaspar]

Say what? Zak's "clarification" had nothing to do with the point discussed. I'm "defending" Catwalk because I think your theory is a poor one. In fact, you could have made it against almost any other person who said they weren't going to be around much the first day.

Plus, I just find it obnoxious to use someone's real life commitments as a sign of alignment. Even if you could make the argument that someone who claimed to be away was slightly likely to be a wolf, these games require a little bit of trust from everyone involved.

You make it sound like I posted a magnum opus about it. It was one line on day one - I don't remotely presume to have figured anything out yet. The point I stand behind is: Catwalk more likely to lurk if scum because of personality. The point I never made: Catwalk is lying and is scum.

And let's not get defensive about lying - its at the core of the game. Scum lie. Village lies too. Everyone lies. Can't play this game about it.

The trust argument is garbage - believe me, I hate when people pull that meta-real life-stuff, I've run into it myself here because of my erratic work schedule in the past and it infuriates me. However, as long as scum are willing to exploit the behavior to gain cover we have to consider it as an option. And there is a whole litany of examples of players saying they're going to only be semi-available for x amount of time and turning up to be lurker scum. Like Zak said - if he said he was going to be away because he was with his dog getting a life-or-death bone marrow transplant, I wouldn't remotely speak of it. But I'm not going to be around much day 1 - sorry, that's fair and part of the game.

[thestick]

Hi everyone! I'm thestick, the Day 1 almost lynch.

I'm willing to take Catwalk on his word that he's busy.

This comes off as overly defensive, no?

Honestly, it seems a bit eager to me. I have no clue what to make of it, though.

(Catwalk vote was a joke vote, but not going to lie that starting the game with that post seems very Molach-ian. Catwalk also strikes me as someone who would lurk if scum, since he'd probably not be at all comfortable with it.)

What gives you the impression that Catwalk would lurk as scum? Molach-ian refers to lurking, yes?

That's only relevant if you think he would lie about being busy in real life to justify his lurking. Catwalk doesn't seem like the kind of person to do that, scum or not.

Again, what gives you that impression?

I should add that this is NOT a call for Catwalk to elaborate on why he's busy this week-end. I am not out to deprive him of his privacy. I just didn't think Injera's defense of Catwalk made much sense.

Injera reading Catwalk as not being the kind of person to lie about real life feels suspicious to you?

If Tasunke's going to troll us all game, he get's the Bob treatment from Lewwyn's game.

Hasn't 'lynching the weird people' backfired on us three games in a row?

Do Rowain and waterbat seem a bit unhinged to anyone else?

uberfish for mayor.

[Tasunke]

Sareln

and

Lewwyn

[Gaspar]

What gives you the impression that Catwalk would lurk as scum? Molach-ian refers to lurking, yes?

Hasn't 'lynching the weird people' backfired on us three games in a row?

I just don't get the sense that Catwalk is especially comfortable lying. If you're not comfortable lying, lurking is easily the best way to survive. I don't really want to spend too much time on Catwalk, I'm not trying to troll him and we have some history of getting under each other's skin in these games. Yes, Molach-ian refers to the fact that he always rolls scum and always lurks.

And I don't think lynching weird people helps the village, but if someone is actively trolling the village - that's different. Certainly you'd rather have a good scum read but if you lack one, I'd rather take a shot at someone actively hurting the game. Hopefully Tasunke won't do that here and it will be irrelevant.

[Injera]

Again, what gives you that impression?

Just his personality. He seems like a guy who's not going to wantonly lie.

The point I stand behind is: Catwalk more likely to lurk if scum because of personality. The point I never made: Catwalk is lying and is scum.

I don't want to go full woodpecker on Day 1, and please correct me if I'm misreading this, but you said that in the context of defending your vote on Catwalk:

(Catwalk vote was a joke vote, but not going to lie that starting the game with that post seems very Molach-ian. Catwalk also strikes me as someone who would lurk if scum, since he'd probably not be at all comfortable with it.)

I bolded the "also" because it's important- your view that Catwalk would be more likely to lurk as a wolf didn't come out of thin air, it was an expansion on your partial defense of of your "joke" vote. So yes, you were saying that Catwalk was (more likely than chance) scum, as you were justifying your vote on him. And using his "lurking wolf" nature as evidence implies that he was playing up or lying about his limited access as an excuse to lurk more.

I know you didn't write a book on it, but these Day 1 asides can matter.

[Qgqqqqq]

Eh, I don't think a day 1 post saying you're a bit busy at the moment and might not be able to post until the end, is worthy of any great suspicion.

Honestly this early on im inclined to take most such posts as neutral, neiither innocent or scum.

[Gaspar]

So yes, you were saying that Catwalk was (more likely than chance) scum, as you were justifying your vote on him. And using his "lurking wolf" nature as evidence implies that he was playing up or lying about his limited access as an excuse to lurk more.

I know you didn't write a book on it, but these Day 1 asides can matter.

I'm not going to engage in this nonsense anymore - more virtual ink has been spilled on the comment than ever was necessary - but why in the hell would I feel a need to justify my first vote of the day?

I do enjoy your stealthy "Day 1 asides can matter" trying to plant a seed for a later screed no doubt. Deciding if its worth taking the Pepsi Challenge to see if you can mislynch me in the quiktopic? :oldwink:

[pindicator]

OK ok ok ok ok ok ok

guys

let me first say that I am still bitter about ww14.

Pindicator claims bitterness too. But as we learned last time, TRUE and CLAIMED bitterness does not necessarily clear the CLAIMANT.

and...

so many roles to metagame about even if the GM indicates that they mean nothing. If I were a wolf, this would be a veritable FIELD DAY of distraction.

I AM A MAN OF GOD

I AM OBVIOUSLY INNOCENT

So you hint that there are lots of metagame possibilities, but don't want to bring them up yourself, and also insinuate that a wolf would have tons to work with here. Subtly bringing it up so you can pounce on someone who runs with it? Or just way into the start?

Seriously, I was so sick of all the meta nonsense last game (which you were a big proponent of, being scum, but that was last game). It pissed me off how much that got carried and perpetuated. So if you continue down the meta road I will vote and shout and cry on you until you start acting sensible.

Fortunately you aren't the biggest offender so far, waterbat. But you're on my watch list.

I wonder how many day 1 votes it would take to get Gaspar to blow up this time?

I also think Twinkletoes is a safe vote for mayor. He gave me a great haircut last week and seems like a swell guy.

+1 - I'm the milkman, but I'm actually lactose intolerant

I'm no fan of bureaucrats, but Catwalk seems harmless enough so far, and I want to see how far he can role-play a bureaucrat :D

Serdoa is the chef. If you take his job, he'll have to be the town drunk - and clearly you are made for that job!

Garbage collector = sanitation worker = the "legit" job of mafioso (at least American mafioso). Probably a bad joke playing on lewwyn's eagerness to be scum, and makes me think he rolled village once again. Or could just be an oversight by Brick

Bigger

Also, zakalwe for mayor. Too early to be certain but I have a good initial feeling off his posts.

[Lewwyn]

Garbage collector = sanitation worker = the "legit" job of mafioso (at least American mafioso). Probably a bad joke playing on lewwyn's eagerness to be scum, and makes me think he rolled village once again. Or could just be an oversight by Brick

I also agree that Zak is much easier to read than Rowain. I'm voting for TT for the same reason, but could switch to Zak.

Guess I'd better get to collecting!

I don't think Rowain is so easy to read. Better to go with someone like Zakalwe. Everybody agreed he was obvscum in the last game, so he should be easy to catch if he's scum.

I am of course willing to open my diary for public scrutiny, to prove that I have a clean record.

I agree with Zakalwe being easier to read than Rowain.

Say what? Zak's "clarification" had nothing to do with the point discussed. I'm "defending" Catwalk because I think your theory is a poor one. In fact, you could have made it against almost any other person who said they weren't going to be around much the first day.

Plus, I just find it obnoxious to use someone's real life commitments as a sign of alignment. Even if you could make the argument that someone who claimed to be away was slightly likely to be a wolf, these games require a little bit of trust from everyone involved.

OMG is decisive and assertive villager Injera back?

5 hours in. I guess Day is going to turn at 5am for me each night...

Qgqqqqqq voted waterbat for mayor??

[Azza]

Waterbat's post confused me, so I'm going to send my lynch vote his way.

Rowain for mayor because the thought of the town drunk becoming mayor amuses me.