Gillette Turn Discussion

[scooter]

Ok talking with Mackoti now, I still don't have these granary growth mechanics crystal clear in my mind. If you do 1T on deer before cow, the granary completes T46 and looks like this:

t46: 7/24f 52/60gr 5/6 yield - granary completes EoT, food at 12/24

5/6 yield means 5F surplus and 6h yield, mentally that's 6*2 for granary bonus. This means at EoT we have a granary completing, a sz2 city with a foodbox directly on the midway point, and 2h of overflow (takes 4 [*2] hammers to complete granary, 6h total yield so 2h overflow). This means growth in 3t = 12 + 5 + 5 + 5 == 27/24F at EoT49.

In contrast we have T46 with cow first:

t46: 10/24f 54/60gr 5/6 - granary completes EoT, food at 15/24

Granary completes at same time. 1 extra hammer of overflow this way. The food is 3F further, so that's why this seems better. At +5f/turn surplus, that means this grows in 2T. 15 + 5 + 5 == 25/24f at EoT48.

Now my question is, where are the food boxes at on T49? Talking with Mackoti, our understanding is deer first would store 12F (12/24 upon granary completion) for 12f + 3f overflow => 15/26F after growth. Cow first stores 9F (15/24 upon granary completion), so that's 9f + 1f overflow => 10/26F after growth. So in terms of food, this should even out, correct? Or is my understanding of granary storage wrong?

[SevenSpirits]

Cow-first: granary finishes and we are at 15/24. Two options.

1) Grow in 2t. Granary stores 10f out of 12f max, so we end up at 11/26f.

2) Grow in 3t (by turning on avoid growth on the second turn). In this case we end the second turn at 24/24 with 10f in the granary, and then grow the following turn after upping the granary to 12f, resulting in 17/26f, but a turn later.

Option 2 is simply 2f and 1c better than the deer-first way. Option 1 is only 1f worse in exchange for being able to work another tile. With the tile in question being improved gold, this seems clearly better to me.

[scooter]

No question the cow-first and grow in 2T is best given the gold. I'm just trying to quantify how much was lost by working the deer this turn because what's done is done (can't let that happen again). My understanding is 0F, 1H, and 1 turn of working the gold is lost. I'm trying to figure out if this is correct or if I don't understand how granaries work completely, as there's some fuzziness between what I'm expecting and what you're saying.

Cow-first: granary finishes and we are at 15/24. Two options.

1) Grow in 2t. Granary stores 10f out of 12f max, so we end up at 11/26f.

Ok, 15/24F=>25/24F means 10F is stored in the granary. We grow because of the gold, so that means 11/26 like you said. However in our current scenario, we'll have 12/24F=>27/24F (after 3T). In that case, is 15F stored? That seems off. Where will the foodbox be at sz3 after going from 12->27/24 at sz2? That should be 15F stored + 3F overflow for 18/26, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong, and I see you saying 12F max stored. Wouldn't it be 15/26 upon hitting sz3?

Finally, why is 10F stored and not 9? It seems like going 15->25/24 and then counting 1F overflow is counting a food twice, and it should be at 10/26F and not 11/26F.

[SevenSpirits]

Ok, 15/24F=>25/24F means 10F is stored in the granary. We grow because of the gold, so that means 11/26 like you said. However in our current scenario, we'll have 12/24F=>27/24F (after 3T). In that case, is 15F stored? That seems off. Where will the foodbox be at sz3 after going from 12->27/24 at sz2? That should be 15F stored + 3F overflow for 18/26, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong, and I see you saying 12F max stored. Wouldn't it be 15/26 upon hitting sz3?

Finally, why is 10F stored and not 9? It seems like going 15->25/24 and then counting 1F overflow is counting a food twice, and it should be at 10/26F and not 11/26F.

You can't store more than half the food box, which resolves to 12f in this case. So in the current situation we have 12f stored and 3f overflow, which means 15/26f at size 3, yes.

The granary stores food even on the turn of growth and even if the food was more than what was needed to grow. For this reason, it's possible to completely fill a granary even if the food box is almost full (or actually full, achievable via avoid growth) when the granary is built, as long as you have a high enough food surplus.

[scooter]

Things are moving again as planned. Occam:



Blades of Glory:



The surrounding land:







Demos:

[Merovech]

Anything happen in the last three days?

[scooter]

No, the turn took forever to get around, and then I forgot we were up until an hour ago. :P

So only played one turn since then. I'll put the screenshots up now, but nothing happened that we didn't plan for.

[scooter]

Cow pastured:



Occam:



Exploring warrior:

[scooter]

Scouting:



YAWN. Blades of Glory is coming along as planned:



Occam:



Demos:



We now have TEAM's graphs. Here's a full set:

Power is concerning, but that's partially because we're the only ones without BW. That'll change next turn.

[scooter]

Another thing. I'll be gone Friday night and the majority of Saturday. That probably means either T42 or T43 will need to be covered by somebody else. Turns are pretty clearly laid out right now, but I'm going to work more on the microplan tomorrow if I can.