WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Tasunke]

Eh waterbat, I don't really see a lot of scummishness from Tasunke.

Ichabod on the other hand ...

[Tasunke]

anyways, before the Rowain distraction (initiated by Pindicator and Novice) we were tied 4/4 on Pindicator and Ichabod.

something to consider, I suppose.

[pindicator]

Very telling that I would consider it a better idea to lynch someone besides myself, isn't it?

[Lewwyn]

I didn't answer Ichabod's defense posts the night before because honestly I simply hadn't gone back to read em. Yesterday I logged in checked the lynch and that's all I really had time for. Two year Wedding Anniversary. But I started today by going back and seeing how we got to a Rowain lynch and saw Ichabod's defense, which I'm not buying.

Ok, Lewwyn, you make a case against me regarding my Mattimeo defense/vote and you decide to only not quote the post where I explain my change of mind about it when Novice asked. This one:

I honestly did not see this post before. If you find that hard to believe thats fine. But after reading it I don't think it clears you in anyway. That's part of the narrative. I expect you to defend the reasoning behind your switch. You have to sell the change. To me it still feels like scum.

And if you were convinced that I was not Mafia after day 2, why post that in such an inconclusive way? To me it seemed like you wanted to have an out to attack me or let the case go, depending on what happened with the thread.

Uh yeah. Did I ever say I thought you were innocent? I said you seemed more villagery. Why would I conclusively decide to say you were innocent if I didn't believe that? I can conclusively say I believe Catwalk to be innocent at this point because he was pushing and prodding a wolf when that wolf had no other pressure. So I believe him to be innocent because I simply can't reconcile him being a wolf at this point. You on the otherhand I said felt more villagery and that is far from confirmation. I stopped pushing you because I hadn't seen anything more scummy. Your argument is that I should have either kept at you like a pitbull or that I should have conclusively decided you were innocent? And then you attack me based on that? That is simply ridiculous. Of course I'm going to follow you and see what happens in the thread. It's a WW game! You're argument against me here is so weak and so ridiculous that I'm surprised you even made it.

Then the second half of that:

And of course I don't think you get a telepathic message to see who is scum. But I remember you going after people even when you were wrong and I'm not seeing this here.

Yeah that's true I do. And if you're not seeing that here I don't know if you're blind or confirmation biased. Catwalk, whom I now believe to be innocent only because of a wolf flip was under pressure from me for pretty much the entire game. Uber, novice and others all stated their belief in Catwalk's innocence and I didn't believe it until I could quantify it myself. So again this is a pretty bullshit argument and I simply don't see how this makes me scum. If anything I feel like you're making up arguments based on perception of what I'm supposed to be doing and then saying I'm not living up to it when clearly I am. How am I supposed to read that as anything but scum?

And since you're insisting that I MUST QUOTE EVERY POST YOU MAKE:

And could you at least look at the point of the game where I made that post about Rowain? The village was a mess and there was no good candidates for a lynch. It was a heavy grasping at straws moment and that particular ting in Rowain post sounded suspicious. remember that, at that time, Towain hadn't yet voted for Mattimeo, so I was highly suspicious of him.

You revenge vote movement, Lewwyn, only serves to prove how you are having difficulty finding suspects. Maybe it's because of the size of the game, but there's a good chance it's because of you being a wolf.

The bit about Rowain that's fine. When I read it next to all the mattimeo stuff It jumped out at me and I wanted to note and I didn't have any other place to really do it.

Now as for me not having suspects... Ichabod did you look at my voting yesterday? I have PLENTY of suspects. Pindi, Azza, Tasunke/Selrahc are on my mind. I have too many suspects! If I wanted to have a revenge movement I could have easily gone after Azza who also voted for me. So why did I choose you? You who are obviously more adept at countering attacks than Azza is? Because I suspect you more! I mean it doesn't get any simpler than that.

People actually followed Lewwyn's vote on me? What are you thinking? Lewwyn's vote is pure revenge vote and a very bad one at that?

Novive, his main reasoning is basen on my change of heart regarding Mattimeo, which I had already explained to you in a post, after you asked a direct question. How come you didn't remember that or better, why not pointing it out, for due process sake, since Lewwyn didn't quote it?

I really, really cant understanf why people don't suspect Lewwyn. Just because he made 3 long vote posts, two against me and one against catwalk...

Whatever, i'm not going to be mislynched.

Pindicator

First off it's not a pure revenge vote. You never were far from my mind. I came after you before and backed off, now I'm coming again. To classify it as pure revenge is again trying to twist perception.

I answered above about the "missing post".

I think people suspect me. I'm still alive and this is actually the longest I've been alive in a game since... I really can't remember. But I think that's a virtue of have a number of strong villagers ahead of me + PR dangers. Plus the longer I'm alive the more suspicious I get. But I do want to address your thing about the big attack post. I really don't do them all that often. Last game go back and look, I only made two long WOT attacks. One on Injera and one on Selrahc. It's not like every person I suspect I draw up this huge attack on. It just happens that sometimes that's necessary for catherding and sometimes its not. Thing is now, every attack in this particular game is becoming a WOT with the volume of information and posts.

And the most vocal part of your reasoning is exactly what that missing post in Lewwyn's post explains, why I changed my mind about Mattimeo.

Let's not forget the the first Mattimeo push was mainly based on not having any other candidate and he was our claimed banner at that time. Also, let's not forget than when I voted Qgqqqq he was another claimed tracker (2 with Injera, before things were clarified) and we didn't know he was innocent.

I'll be back in a few hours.

Explained up top earlier. It's unfortunate that I didn't see your post earlier because I WOULD have added it to my post. I'm afraid a lot of evidence is just being buried this game.

Just for completeness:

I'm finally back. Molach hasn't been useful at all during thos game and I wouldn't mind lynching him. It's a pity he hasn't been discussed.

I'll keep with Pindicator, more due to more info than finding Rowain less scummier than him.

Null. I hope I didn't miss any other of your posts through the end of the day, but honestly I don't know if I can keep doing this detailed of an examination all the time.


Ichabod, Your defense only makes me think you are more scummy not less.

[novice]

Ichabod

[Azza]

Solely to keep the vote relatively close, which is when I believe we can learn the most from voting patterns, Injera.

[Tasunke]

Solely to keep the vote relatively close, which is when I believe we can learn the most from voting patterns, Injera.

this just strikes me as odd ...

[Gaspar]

On the basis of play, I find Ichabod to have had more scummy posts than Injera, who looked pretty scummy early on but has just looked checked out since then. But unlike say, novice, who has a fairly lengthy pro-town resume, it seems like Injera has been skating a bit since his reveal. I don't have time for a detailed post analysis probably at all this gameday but I feel like the question needs to be asked. If someone who has more time can look into his post-Matt lynch stuff, I think it'd be useful.

Anyway, I'll be mostly mobile from here until late tonight, might be able to gin up something longer then if noone else has before now.

[Meiz]

Eh, sorry bout that Rowain. Nice trick

Did everyone ignore the fact that Ichabod did not realize how Matt's power worked, or do you think he's acting? Same for Jkaen.

I don't get the reasons behind your vote at all Azza. Trying to push two villagers up on block already? Don't like Gaspars reasons either. Maybe Injera was left alive so this attack could be made? Do you really think wolves had watcher & follower? Injera has followed Catwalk and Lewwyn at least. That's quite a gamble if he doesn't have the power, and I doubt he'd risk two wolf partners with this kind of play. Yeah, that's meta argument which didn't work that well last game, but still...

Azza

[Gaspar]

I meant before then, obviously.