WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Catwalk]

TT, I can't disagree that my absence is horrible villager play, but surely it's even worse wolf play? I was still high on most people's village lists until my vote yesterday and my absence afterwards, if I wanted to dive for cover this was by no means the way to do it. I'll make an honest attempt at contributing tomorrow, I hope you'll reconsider your suspicion of me. I agree you're the most likely villager (other than myself), so Twinkletoes89

One hole in your theory: You can't argue that Gaspar and Lewwyn usually fight when they're on the same side, as we have not seen Lewwyn as wolf until this game.

[Twinkletoes89]

One hole in your theory: You can't argue that Gaspar and Lewwyn usually fight when they're on the same side, as we have not seen Lewwyn as wolf until this game.

True, but they have both been villagers before.

My suspicion of you isn't locked in, but it does appear at the front of my mind more than most.

When the need for only a couple of mislynches is there, it does make some sense for mafia members to go quiet and try and let the village kill itself - which (depending on Meiz's alignment) may have been the case until the move on Lewwyn began.

[pindicator]

Having trouble understanding why catwalk gets suspicion for being quiet but jkaen looks like a mislynch, but aside from that i largely agree.

With them, i think the answer is going to be in the early portions of the game, when they were posting. Which probably means i should try to re-read their early stuff. That's why i think jkaen is scummy though, the bits i've seen of him interacting with lewwyn. Catwalk i think is village for the same reason.

I think I see Gaspar much like you see me, TT. I want him to be village, and when he posted in the past it's looked villagery, but it's been sporadically helpful and he didn't look good yesterday. I have too many doubts about him right now, so i am really looking forward to what he comes up with. So four people to re-read 10 days of material? Probably not going to happen.

Meiz, Catwalk, and Jkaen - Come on, you all aren't scum! - get in here and post so we can nab the badguy(s) and wrap up this marathon game on a high note!

[pindicator]

That last post was directed at Twinkletoes, btw. X-posted with him and catwalk

[Catwalk]

TT, I agree it makes sense for mafia to blend in and let the village kill itself, but that's hardly done by disappearing. I don't think any comparison with both being villagers makes much sense, as villagers they don't know they're on the same team. If anything, them not fighting could be taken as an argument that they're both scum.

[Twinkletoes89]

The reason catwalk gets more heat is because its a much more noticeable shift in play style. Jkaen was always relatively inactive and with things as they are it just feels 'too easy'.

I've been wrong on 'too easy' lynches before, but this lynch makes me feel uneasy when there is so much on the line.

[pindicator]

I'll get some links up, but Catwalk was facing attacks from Lewwyn, Mattimeo, and Molach on the beginning of day 2. They didn't all vote him - only Lewwyn went that route - but they all attacked him in posts early in day 2. This makes Catwalk look village to me: wolves were trying to discredit him because he was on Mattimeo early.

Also, if you look at Lewwyn's day 4 posts he is trying to deflect attention off of Mattimeo pretty consistently, and would have succeeded had novice not done that late push. So i do not think they were looking to bus Mattimeo or anybody else at that point.

[Twinkletoes89]

I see those points Pin, but I raise you these points in return:

1) He was quite possibly the most vocal supporter of the push on Bigger over thestick - dabbled on Mattimeo quickly then jumped back on to Bigger when it got close.

2) He was the biggest advocate of the Azza mislynch.

These are both pretty damning and which give me some reason to suspect him for being mafia

[waterbat]

Too bad they didn't do the same for me. I was also on Mattimeo at that time iirc.

[pindicator]

1) He was quite possibly the most vocal supporter of the push on Bigger over thestick - dabbled on Mattimeo quickly then jumped back on to Bigger when it got close.

Agree with you that this is mot a good point for Catwalk

2) He was the biggest advocate of the Azza mislynch.

Actually, this is a village tell for me. Because he got a bit of push back for being on Azza - i pushed him really hard on day 7 about playing with blinders on- and he stuck to his guns. That tells me he really thought azza was guilty. If he was a wolf he would have known all along that azza was innocent.

Compare that to say Lewwyn: when novice pushes him day 4 for being on Catwalk and says he thinks Catwalk is village, Lewwyn then jumps off and goes after Selrahc and Injera. Then Ichabod pushes him for jumping off Catwalk and he jumps back on just a few posts later. (Man, hindsight makes you wonder how you didn't see some things earlier...). Point is, Lewwyn knew those people were village (and i'm assuming Catwalk is too) so he was lacking the conviction of someone earnestly hunting scum; and i think Catwalk had that conviction.

@waterbat: i don't remember anybody but catwalk and bigger being on mattimeo that early. Have a post you can point me to?