The Quarterdeck - Turn Discussion Thread

[Cornflakes]

I didn't mean to come across as spiteful. I can't really blame M3 for burning Tortuga and they executed the attack well (better than I was expecting, actually) and I won't hold a grudge against someone for good playing. My aim is not simply "forget about our game and wreck M3" but rather "how can we best make something out of this situation?" This is a democracy game, so I'll lay out my plan and then you guys can pick it to pieces and propose a better plan

Item 1: If we wait until later ages to compete in a building game we will be outpaced by (at the very least) TEAM and Tropical Tolls, and likely everyone else. Therefore we must do something in the near future if we hope to right the ship.
Item 2: Once M3 gets construction all hope of an offensive war can be forgotten. We cannot attack with slow-movers against defending catapults, and we cannot attack with mounted units against defending Ballista Elephants. Therefore we must strike quickly if we are to strike at all. Here’s the path we need if we want to wait for construction … Tech(beakers)

Pottery(74 remaining) -> Writing (171) -> Mathematics(357) -> Masonry (114) -> Construction(500) [Total: 1162]

In these next calculations I’m going to truly show my greenness with an overly rough simplification, but here it is anyway … My estimate of the time to Construction is 35 turns:

assuming 20% pre-req bonus and average 10% known-tech bonus we get (roughly) 1162*0.7= 815 beakers. We currently get 10 bpt. Assuming we double the beaker output every 15 turns it will take us about 40 turns of research. Assuming we double beaker output every 10T it will take us about 33T of research. Since we’re just looking for a rough estimate let’s say 35T.

Taking into account granary-boosted whips I think we can get (again, rough estimate) 4 axes per 10T each out of both Port Royal and Barbados, delay 10T to allow time for building the granaries and barracks and getting out a settler/Workboat we can get 20 axes in those 35T, especially if we chop into the granaries/barracks (which I would do). If we continue building axes while we march on the (assumed) Tortuga-replacement-in-our-direction we can roll over it with about 10 surviving axes, fill in the gaps with another 5 produced and continue towards Animal farm.

I can look into the micro for granary/barracks/settler micro if you give me a day or two (unless a better plan is proposed by then).

[Viqsi]

Do we have any idea how far they are from Construction? I imagine it'd be a significant priority for them because of their UU. I personally wouldn't know - my C&D skills amount largely to knowing that the concept of C&D exists, and I have a loathing for it not unlike the loathing some folks in this community have for full diplo (based, I have at one point indelicately opined, on similar motivations of "I suck at it" ). Nonetheless, if we have any of our practitioners of that black art handy, it'd be very useful for this discussion.

I am not a warmonger, so my further commentary may not be helpful. :D I would of course prefer that M3 be vaporized, but I would prefer to do that with the help of friends, and I think that that's a ways away.

[thestick]

Quickly, I do'nt think we should go on an offensive war unless we think we can make significant gains.

[Viqsi]

Quickly, I do'nt think we should go on an offensive war unless we think we can make significant gains.

I read "significant gains" as "crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their sheep women."

So, yeah. Life now. Vengeance later.

[luddite]

I think they're too far away to attack with axes. We'd be better off expanding east and growing our economy so we can fight back more effectively if they attack again.

[thestick]

Item 1: If we wait until later ages to compete in a building game we will be outpaced by (at the very least) TEAM and Tropical Tolls, and likely everyone else. Therefore we must do something in the near future if we hope to right the ship.
Item 2: Once M3 gets construction all hope of an offensive war can be forgotten. We cannot attack with slow-movers against defending catapults, and we cannot attack with mounted units against defending Ballista Elephants. Therefore we must strike quickly if we are to strike at all.

I agree with this, but I think the most important item is:
Do what you can to improve your position.

I don't think an all-out Axe attack will improve our position. Even if we somehow completely conquer M3, our economy will be ruined from whipping Axes and having to maintain a second capital. From an impartial standpoint, attacking TEAM would probably be better, assuming that Gillette is telling the truth about TEAM sending all their forces towards Gillette.

If that's the case, I say we simply rebuild and play defensively, using Catapults to defend ourselves.

That's probably too far in the future, though, for all we know M3's Axes will keep marching to Port Royal.

[Cornflakes]

I don't think an all-out Axe attack will improve our position. Even if we somehow completely conquer M3, our economy will be ruined from whipping Axes and having to maintain a second capital. From an impartial standpoint, attacking TEAM would probably be better, assuming that Gillette is telling the truth about TEAM sending all their forces towards Gillette.

If that's the case, I say we simply rebuild and play defensively, using Catapults to defend ourselves.

That's probably too far in the future, though, for all we know M3's Axes will keep marching to Port Royal.

Alright, appears that defensive is the consensus. Kind of a relief in a way because it looks like I won't have time to work out a detailed plan this week. I might drop in once or twice via mobile if I get the chance but I will be unavailable until probably Friday for turn playing so we need someone else ready to step up when they roll.

As for immediate plans, we can get pottery in 3T of 100% research, Axe completes in 4T, whip anger wears off in 5T at Barbados so we should turn on research this turn or next. Axe in Tortuga completes in 2? turns followed by Workboat?

As for immediate danger, if M3 continues to advance we should whip Barbados when the green axes sit 2SE of Barbados. At that time we will have enough overflow to 1T a second axe out of Barbados (total of 3 with the one from PR). Hopefully this won't be necessary and they will be content with razing Tortuga and being done with it.

[thestick]

I think we should turn on research if M3 starts talking about peace, and keep storing cash for Quechua-Axe upgrades if M3 keeps marching. I think we still have some Quechuas alive... I can't quite remember.

If they attack, shouldn't we just skip the waiting and whip Axes like no tomorrow?

Definitely build a Work Boat in Port Royal; at the very least, we need food and population to whip away.

[Cornflakes]

I think we should turn on research if M3 starts talking about peace, and keep storing cash for Quechua-Axe upgrades if M3 keeps marching. I think we still have some Quechuas alive... I can't quite remember.

If they attack, shouldn't we just skip the waiting and whip Axes like no tomorrow?

Definitely build a Work Boat in Port Royal; at the very least, we need food and population to whip away.

After further reflection I think you are correct about whipping like no tomorrow if M3 advances. We will have a maximum of 3 pop (including the growth we'll get next turn or the turn after). Total of current 20H invested +30+30+30+4+4+4+4 = 128H --> 3 1/2 axes out of Tortuga plus one out of Port Royal before M3 can reach Barbados.

Gold though ... We are another 5T away from getting enough gold to upgrade even one Q->Axe. After our whipping party we should have pottery in to start construction on granaries. 85g to upgrade just seems like a waste. We can wait another turn before turning on research though and still have time to get pottery in time.

Have we tried contacting M3 players directly about diplomacy or just their team email? They mentioned having problems with lack of players, so maybe their diplomacy member is MIA?

[Viqsi]

Have we tried contacting M3 players directly about diplomacy or just their team email? They mentioned having problems with lack of players, so maybe their diplomacy member is MIA?

Diplo with us was most recently being handled by TheHumanHydra, and he's evidently just as new and eager at this as I am. OTOH, we both so far have had this thing about wanting feedback from everyone else 'cause, y'know, new, so maybe he's trying to build consensus with absentee folks. So, dunno.