WW17 - A Game of Thrones

[BRickAstley]

For everyone that may be questioning my vote on TT89, it was because last game ended with him calling the whole village useless and incompetent and similar things. So, his first post here with a check up and a joke seemed a little too "happy", maybe friendly is a better word.

So I voted without giving any comments to wait for his next post. His next post was: "This looks good/bad, but it could also be good/bad". You know, those comments that really don't go any directions. And, most importantly, he completely ignored my random/useless/without reasoning vote.

So, I think a good place to start is keeping my vote on Twinkletoes89.

First of all, apologies for being 'happy' Ichabod. At the end of the last game I had spent days and days going against pretty much everyone on nearly everything that I was more than a little frustrated with the whole thing and felt within my rights to lash out. Add to that some rather unhappy RL issues (break up of long relationship and family illness) and you could see why I might be predisposed to be a bit angry.

But that game is over, my life is rebuilding and so I don't particularly feel the need to start angry when I don't feel that way. I didn't feel the need to respond to your vote as it was an early game vote and I'm not going to get worked up over it when everyone's guess is as good as anyone else's right now. I'm certainly not going to get angry over it. Did you expect me to?

On to my post, yes I wasn't pointing any fingers as I feel there is nowhere to point them right now. There are next to no leads right now (as always on Day 1) and I don't throw my vote around when I can't back it up. I felt that I should weigh in on the early mini-moves on Coco and Brick just so that some thought may go into it before an early move gets more traction than perhaps it really should. I don't like guesswork, especially on such flimsy evidence so far and so I decided to speak out about it and show how both sides of the argument (innocent newb vs scum) have merit right now.

I'm off out for most of the rest of today, so this response shall have to do until then.

Makes good sense. I think the problem was that your attempt to show that either scum or village was possible was given in a way that looks more like an attempt to weigh in on issues without offering anything definitive.

BRickAstley

'sup Ichabod, got any reasoning as to why?

[Tasunke]

maybe Ichabod was self-voting on TT, but since they are both wolves, he now wants to vote somewhere else to stop the suddenly sensational dogpile.

On the otherhand, he could have just set-up TT, and now that a dogpile is gaining speed, he doesn't want to get credit for the mislynch, and so switches his votes.

Of course, he could also just be a tasunke wannabe

[Lewwyn]

Uber says just go ahead and use my main account since I screwed up my anonymity experiment. You have no idea how pissed I am at myself. Just look at when I registered the account! Get a bit tired and...



Ichabod could just be testing TT's comments on Brick by pushing Brick. Who says he believes TT's story? In any case Ichabod is reading villagery to me.

I actually think Ichabod was just off in his characterization of TT with "happy" I think he's mistaking "lack of paranoia" for happy. And paranoia's a lot more difficult to generate if you have all the answers. But, maybe its too early for paranoia to kick in? Still have time to think about it.

[Ichabod]

For everyone that may be questioning my vote on TT89, it was because last game ended with him calling the whole village useless and incompetent and similar things. So, his first post here with a check up and a joke seemed a little too "happy", maybe friendly is a better word.

So I voted without giving any comments to wait for his next post. His next post was: "This looks good/bad, but it could also be good/bad". You know, those comments that really don't go any directions. And, most importantly, he completely ignored my random/useless/without reasoning vote.

So, I think a good place to start is keeping my vote on Twinkletoes89.

First of all, apologies for being 'happy' Ichabod. At the end of the last game I had spent days and days going against pretty much everyone on nearly everything that I was more than a little frustrated with the whole thing and felt within my rights to lash out. Add to that some rather unhappy RL issues (break up of long relationship and family illness) and you could see why I might be predisposed to be a bit angry.

But that game is over, my life is rebuilding and so I don't particularly feel the need to start angry when I don't feel that way. I didn't feel the need to respond to your vote as it was an early game vote and I'm not going to get worked up over it when everyone's guess is as good as anyone else's right now. I'm certainly not going to get angry over it. Did you expect me to?

On to my post, yes I wasn't pointing any fingers as I feel there is nowhere to point them right now. There are next to no leads right now (as always on Day 1) and I don't throw my vote around when I can't back it up. I felt that I should weigh in on the early mini-moves on Coco and Brick just so that some thought may go into it before an early move gets more traction than perhaps it really should. I don't like guesswork, especially on such flimsy evidence so far and so I decided to speak out about it and show how both sides of the argument (innocent newb vs scum) have merit right now.

I'm off out for most of the rest of today, so this response shall have to do until then.

Makes good sense. I think the problem was that your attempt to show that either scum or village was possible was given in a way that looks more like an attempt to weigh in on issues without offering anything definitive.

BRickAstley

'sup Ichabod, got any reasoning as to why?

Reason that I voted for you was because this post:

Well the reason that I made such an out there question, is to begin getting an idea of what people's mindsets are going into this game, to look to anything fishy through their responses.

I dunno, normally a talking point appears, given time.

It's never easy to get the discussion going. Ultimately, someone just needs to stick their head out and say something stupid, so we have something to talk about.

Thanks for volunteering.

Q seems very eager, which makes me lean very very slightly town. So let's see if Coco is loco.

Abd I realize that this has put me out into the public debate, but since my goal is to look for and find wolf tells, I'm willing to risk a little heat if it makes people reveal their hand.

And so it did! We have someone doing the vote that is justified on past experiences, except for the fact that a policy lynch on Day 1 does not seem like a good start:

Werewolf game - Yes
Tasunke in game - Yes
Day 1 - Yes
Opening - Yes
...
Tasunke

Someone who has made a meaningful analysis of an interesting response (I think this one is good not scummy btw):

Fair enough. Two things are interesting about your response. 1. complete lack of defensiveness or revenge vote. 2. quickly giving into my demands (against your usual pattern of trying to wait until the very end of day 1 to vote), despite only one other person joining me on you.

I take this to be an eagerness to avoid ruffling feathers and any votes you can. Normally, this is a scum tell, but I think you are one of the few players who are more worried about being lynched when you're innocent than when you're guilty. hmm, I'll keep an eye on you, but stay true to my word.

Someone who says a lot without saying anything at all:

As always, too little to go on for me to put my vote anywhere, but a couple of thoughts so far.

Coco did go defensive a bit quickly, which is pinging my scumdar, but it could very easily be first game paranoia - so its not really enough to read one way or the other.

The Brick post looked odd to me, seemed to be almost trying too hard to seem pro-town so early by asking how we get to making serious votes after the almost obligatory unserious start. Nudges a little scummy but not enough either.

Hopefully the further reactions of these two and the reactions of others to them might be more revealing

And someone who..... wait, sexual innuendo, really? C'mon Pindicator, I remember someone being lynched for talking about a book or something before, going off topic like this after your hot and heavy involvement in last game is just weak.:

@Azza- Good start, but have fun too! This is a game, after all, and no reason not to be enjoying ourselves.

For example: sexual innuendos by coco, thestick, and zakalwe? I approve!
But zakalwe, this puzzles me a bit:

Q seems very eager, which makes me lean very very slightly town. So let's see if Coco is loco.

Just because Q gives you a village lean means that you trust his judgment now? Only scum know who the other side is, and this post implies a black & white mindset.

So from that, I have a village lean on Bigger, and scum leans on Sareln, TT, and Pindicator. I'm going to go with Twinkletoes89 for the moment, but I'm watching the other two as well.

felt bad. It is a multi-quote post, commenting on a lot of things that are happening. This type of post in inherently suspicious, in my eyes. So I check the actual content of the post to see if it is suspicious or not. It felt suspicious, in my opinion. The thing against Sareln sounded forced and the other two or basically repeating what I and Zakalwe had already said. Besides, it's like you are narrating the day, not giving input.

Besides, for some reason, the fact that you voted for TT and not one of the other 2 suspects also felt a bit suspicious for me.

So, voted for you to see your reaction. Revenge vote on me + unsuspect TT. Interesting stuff.

[Lewwyn]

That Loki fellow sounds familiar. I predict he's going to show up as Lewwyn's smurf.

I missed this earlier. Novice, am I that predictable?

[zakalwe]

He exploited a glitch in the matrix.

As did I, in posts 47-48.

[Rowain]

I'm glad I'm not the GM that has to sort through this time mess to decide which is now the actual vote

@Lewwynoki


@TT I'm voting for you because this post of you :

As always, too little to go on for me to put my vote anywhere, but a couple of thoughts so far.

Coco did go defensive a bit quickly, which is pinging my scumdar, but it could very easily be first game paranoia - so its not really enough to read one way or the other.

The Brick post looked odd to me, seemed to be almost trying too hard to seem pro-town so early by asking how we get to making serious votes after the almost obligatory unserious start. Nudges a little scummy but not enough either.

Hopefully the further reactions of these two and the reactions of others to them might be more revealing

sounds alot like someone fanning the flames on two (easy) targets while budding up to novice and zak at the same time.

[BRickAstley]

(All those previous quotes) felt bad. It is a multi-quote post, commenting on a lot of things that are happening. This type of post in inherently suspicious, in my eyes. So I check the actual content of the post to see if it is suspicious or not. It felt suspicious, in my opinion. The thing against Sareln sounded forced and the other two or basically repeating what I and Zakalwe had already said. Besides, it's like you are narrating the day, not giving input.

Besides, for some reason, the fact that you voted for TT and not one of the other 2 suspects also felt a bit suspicious for me.

So, voted for you to see your reaction. Revenge vote on me + unsuspect TT. Interesting stuff.

Well, it ties back to my initial post that started this discussion. I was looking at the current litany of opening joke votes, and wanted to start the process fo gathering legitimate information, so that we could be aided in finding information about wolves. This is why I respond with a summation post, because I wanted to highlight the remarks made by people that I found suspicious. They were the comments that I saw to be most suspicious from what was said afterwards. It's unfortunate though that if I look at a post that someone else has looked at, i'm a copycat, but if I look at one no one else has so far, I'm forcing it.

My input was tied in with my narration. I don't like the fact that Sareln made a comment that's basically desiring to policy vote. Even with the dearth of relevant content made known in the first day, There should still be enough content available to try and look for wolf tells, and going for an elimination of tasunke based only on the fact that he is crazy does not seem like a very smart strategy to take. With TT, I was struck with the fact that he looked to be trying to add words without adding content. It wasn't a very strong tell, but one that I thought warranted putting out there, in order to see what his response. Pindicator's post just baffled me. I knew I didn't have anything new to add, but the fact that he was bringing a silly note to the start of serious discussions seemed very off to me, especially after his very involved play last game.

The reason that I voted for TT first was that I thought that his post was the most in line with what we consider to be a current wolf tell. It's the classic hide behind words so you look like you're involved, without putting your neck on the line. I should know, I was part of that back in 15.

Therefore, I was glad when I saw TT's response post to me that offered a lot more explanation. He defended with saying that he didn't want to put any votes out there without due reason, which is acceptable, as well as his general mindset of wanting to show that the arguments on either of the two current leaders have no basis. I responded with an affirmation that his initial wording made him look suspicious, but after that explanation, I feel like his posts when viewed in total aren't anything to have further suspicions about.

My vote for you I would argue was not a revenge vote, as much of a "oh really that's 2 votes in a row now without any explanation" vote. I wanted to know why you were voting me now with no reasoning, because I knew that you would proffer reasoning after I did so, just like you did with your TT vote. when it's early game like this and we don't have a lot of information, it's helpful to prod at any leads to try and gather some information to start looking for wolf exposes. And I'm going to keep going down my list of people as I prod and they answer, if their explanations meet what I wanted to achieve. Like now, I'm putting my vote on Sareln because I want to hear from him as to his reasoning for advocating a policy lynch already.

Yes, there are dangers in flinging around votes without proper reasoning. But the vote is also such a powerful tool to give us information to go on for serious consideration, so it must be properly now to get us that information.

[BRickAstley]

Also, all these extra nested quotes could become very annoying very quickly, and I could see relevant content getting lost in posts if we quote posts entirely. When people are able to, could you either delete far back quotes, or put them in spoilers as follows, to keep down on page spam and so we don't miss information?

For everyone that may be questioning my vote on TT89, it was because last game ended with him calling the whole village useless and incompetent and similar things. So, his first post here with a check up and a joke seemed a little too "happy", maybe friendly is a better word.

So I voted without giving any comments to wait for his next post. His next post was: "This looks good/bad, but it could also be good/bad". You know, those comments that really don't go any directions. And, most importantly, he completely ignored my random/useless/without reasoning vote.

So, I think a good place to start is keeping my vote on Twinkletoes89.

First of all, apologies for being 'happy' Ichabod. At the end of the last game I had spent days and days going against pretty much everyone on nearly everything that I was more than a little frustrated with the whole thing and felt within my rights to lash out. Add to that some rather unhappy RL issues (break up of long relationship and family illness) and you could see why I might be predisposed to be a bit angry.

But that game is over, my life is rebuilding and so I don't particularly feel the need to start angry when I don't feel that way. I didn't feel the need to respond to your vote as it was an early game vote and I'm not going to get worked up over it when everyone's guess is as good as anyone else's right now. I'm certainly not going to get angry over it. Did you expect me to?

On to my post, yes I wasn't pointing any fingers as I feel there is nowhere to point them right now. There are next to no leads right now (as always on Day 1) and I don't throw my vote around when I can't back it up. I felt that I should weigh in on the early mini-moves on Coco and Brick just so that some thought may go into it before an early move gets more traction than perhaps it really should. I don't like guesswork, especially on such flimsy evidence so far and so I decided to speak out about it and show how both sides of the argument (innocent newb vs scum) have merit right now.

I'm off out for most of the rest of today, so this response shall have to do until then.

Makes good sense. I think the problem was that your attempt to show that either scum or village was possible was given in a way that looks more like an attempt to weigh in on issues without offering anything definitive.

BRickAstley

'sup Ichabod, got any reasoning as to why?

Reason that I voted for you was because this post:

Well the reason that I made such an out there question, is to begin getting an idea of what people's mindsets are going into this game, to look to anything fishy through their responses.

I dunno, normally a talking point appears, given time.

It's never easy to get the discussion going. Ultimately, someone just needs to stick their head out and say something stupid, so we have something to talk about.

Thanks for volunteering.

Q seems very eager, which makes me lean very very slightly town. So let's see if Coco is loco.

Abd I realize that this has put me out into the public debate, but since my goal is to look for and find wolf tells, I'm willing to risk a little heat if it makes people reveal their hand.

And so it did! We have someone doing the vote that is justified on past experiences, except for the fact that a policy lynch on Day 1 does not seem like a good start:

Werewolf game - Yes
Tasunke in game - Yes
Day 1 - Yes
Opening - Yes
...
Tasunke

Someone who has made a meaningful analysis of an interesting response (I think this one is good not scummy btw):

Fair enough. Two things are interesting about your response. 1. complete lack of defensiveness or revenge vote. 2. quickly giving into my demands (against your usual pattern of trying to wait until the very end of day 1 to vote), despite only one other person joining me on you.

I take this to be an eagerness to avoid ruffling feathers and any votes you can. Normally, this is a scum tell, but I think you are one of the few players who are more worried about being lynched when you're innocent than when you're guilty. hmm, I'll keep an eye on you, but stay true to my word.

Someone who says a lot without saying anything at all:

As always, too little to go on for me to put my vote anywhere, but a couple of thoughts so far.

Coco did go defensive a bit quickly, which is pinging my scumdar, but it could very easily be first game paranoia - so its not really enough to read one way or the other.

The Brick post looked odd to me, seemed to be almost trying too hard to seem pro-town so early by asking how we get to making serious votes after the almost obligatory unserious start. Nudges a little scummy but not enough either.

Hopefully the further reactions of these two and the reactions of others to them might be more revealing

And someone who..... wait, sexual innuendo, really? C'mon Pindicator, I remember someone being lynched for talking about a book or something before, going off topic like this after your hot and heavy involvement in last game is just weak.:

@Azza- Good start, but have fun too! This is a game, after all, and no reason not to be enjoying ourselves.

For example: sexual innuendos by coco, thestick, and zakalwe? I approve!
But zakalwe, this puzzles me a bit:

Q seems very eager, which makes me lean very very slightly town. So let's see if Coco is loco.

Just because Q gives you a village lean means that you trust his judgment now? Only scum know who the other side is, and this post implies a black & white mindset.

So from that, I have a village lean on Bigger, and scum leans on Sareln, TT, and Pindicator. I'm going to go with Twinkletoes89 for the moment, but I'm watching the other two as well.

felt bad. It is a multi-quote post, commenting on a lot of things that are happening. This type of post in inherently suspicious, in my eyes. So I check the actual content of the post to see if it is suspicious or not. It felt suspicious, in my opinion. The thing against Sareln sounded forced and the other two or basically repeating what I and Zakalwe had already said. Besides, it's like you are narrating the day, not giving input.

Besides, for some reason, the fact that you voted for TT and not one of the other 2 suspects also felt a bit suspicious for me.

So, voted for you to see your reaction. Revenge vote on me + unsuspect TT. Interesting stuff.

[thestick]

@Loki and zak: LOL.

Wow, multiquote can get annoying very quickly. Ichabod's Post 74 monster post isn't actually that long.

I'm finding BRick a bit suspicious. He first tries to act dumb, but he catches flack for that and stops doing it. He then tries multiquoting, then catches flack for that and stops doing it. Now, he's explaining himself. It feels like he's fishing for what strategy will work.

not sure of his guilt status yet, but Tasunke is clearly the most likely to accidently drop a major spoiler.

Could you please explain?