WW17 - A Game of Thrones

[Twinkletoes89]

@mattimeo

I found the Tasunke name changes to be annoying but more in character than out of.

I'm not sure what queries you think he has avoided that means his actions are 'tantamount to proof' either (which sounds too strong a description for something which to me, appears quite superficial and flaky).

Also, you pick up on him saying that there are clearly two packs in the game and comment that his statement is 'too certain' for your liking. While I see it can be interpreted that way, I also think its probably not a hard conclusion to come to and his statement isn't really that far out of the ordinary. I think you may well be overreacting again and trying a bit too hard to push Tasunke.

It reminds me a bit of Ichabod's case on me yesterday. You see one thing that sticks out to you and then everything else from that person then is seen in a way to fit your early assumption of what you thought you saw. Thus I wouldn't say that right now this leans you either way very far, but I'd advise you to be careful or try and find some more convincing evidence to persuade me that you are on to something.

[Lewwyn]

I haven't made up my mind yet about Rowain. The issue I'm having is that Rowain isn't being as grumpy as usual. He's not really being as antagonistic (IMO) even when he was arguing with novice earlier I didn't see the same level of rubbing me the wrong way. I was thinking about this on Day 1 as well. And I think Bigger said it best when he mentioned he actually felt like Rowain was making sense. Then there was the whole thing with last minute vote on Bigger.

I was planning on pushing Brick again so I've really been reordering my thoughts all day. I was surprised when he died.

Zak you mentioned this:

/m309 "Good news is I think we can clear TT. He switched to Pindi to save himself only everyone was already jumping. I think if he were in a wolfpack he would know who the other wolves would be landing on ahead of time. If that's true then Bigger and TT are both innocent. Brick and pindi were the last two on the block. Could be that either of them is scum. [In the next post] Or neither..."
Again he is quick to clear TT. This looks more townish, but since he already started defending TT he could also just be following up on that.

And yeah I've actually started to change my mind again. This was written in night phase before the kills. But TT may actually be scum if Brick wasn't and Ichabod suspected him. The deaths make me lean back towards TT as scum. TT may have been making a "preservation vote" but it was happening so fast its possible he as a wolf actually missed it. He didn't actually want to get his vote on Bigger though. But he knew Rowain a packmate would be voting for bigger (which fell through). -- Just what I've been thinking about today at work.

And when I say did anyone pressure Rowain at all yesterday, I meant didn't anyone vote for him. Pressure isn't really pressure unless you vote. Rowain

[Lewwyn]

My honest reads right now. The first thing that pops into my head.

Azza - scum
Zakalwe - scum
Tasunke - scum
Rowain - scum
Mattimeo - scum?
Serdoa - scum
Sareln - scum
Loki - who's this guy
Novice - scum
Qgqqqq - too right! Scum
Twinkletoes89 - scum
Jkaen - town?
Pindicator - town?
Thestick - town
Mardoc - like a mirror...
Coco - scum

It's like... my entire perspective has just overloaded after playing wolf last game.

I know this doesn't inspire much confidence in my innocence and know people will say "he knows how seem innocent" but I've been in my head all day. So I'm hoping I see something in the next 24 hours that helps me make sense of what I've seen so far.

[Rowain]

Zak you mentioned this:

/m309 "Good news is I think we can clear TT. He switched to Pindi to save himself only everyone was already jumping. I think if he were in a wolfpack he would know who the other wolves would be landing on ahead of time. If that's true then Bigger and TT are both innocent. Brick and pindi were the last two on the block. Could be that either of them is scum. [In the next post] Or neither..."
Again he is quick to clear TT. This looks more townish, but since he already started defending TT he could also just be following up on that.

And yeah I've actually started to change my mind again. This was written in night phase before the kills. But TT may actually be scum if Brick wasn't and Ichabod suspected him. The deaths make me lean back towards TT as scum. TT may have been making a "preservation vote" but it was happening so fast its possible he as a wolf actually missed it. He didn't actually want to get his vote on Bigger though. But he knew Rowain a packmate would be voting for bigger (which fell through). -- Just what I've been thinking about today at work.

Lewwyn since when are you a member of the tinfoil-hats?
If I understand you right you say: Wolf TT didn't want to make the selfsaving vote on villager Bigger on whom he already was! So TT moved off Bigger and hoped that Serdoa and Rowain would move to Bigger in time to save him?.

What does place does Serdoas last minute vote have in your theory?

[Tasunke]

Whats all this about malicious intent and quickly dropping the subject?

I've been avoiding that quicktopic like the plague (I eventually grew tired of the unusable format).

Looks like I missed something.

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn since when are you a member of the tinfoil-hats?
If I understand you right you say: Wolf TT didn't want to make the selfsaving vote on villager Bigger on whom he already was! So TT moved off Bigger and hoped that Serdoa and Rowain would move to Bigger in time to save him?.

What does place does Serdoas last minute vote have in your theory?

Well, yeah. After last game where so much stuff happened and the wolves pretty much lost control of Day 1 I think anything could have happened last Day. But you're right the simpler explanation is that TT isn't scum. In fact. Why would scum move at all during the end of the day if both Bigger and Brick weren't scum. The TT wagon was a bit too fast. And TT moved to pindicator because he thought that that he could save himself by jumping there. That means that either TT Or pindicator could be wolves but not both. And if neither are wolves then it doesn't make sense for wolves to change their votes at all. So scum is more likely staying place during the end of that day unless one of TT and Pin are wolves.

Ugh, Rowain making sense makes me want to vote for him. But it actually makes more sense to vote for pindicator or TT instead.

[Serdoa]

I'm kinda torn right now. I can see Lewwyns argument against Rowain and I agree with him. Rowain is much more relaxed it seems. On the other hand, I have made that argument some games ago already. I can't remember if Rowain was scum there but I think he was not. So he really might just take the game lighter.

On the other hand we have zaks argument against Lewwyn. I can see what he means, but tbh, what really makes me wary is the tone of Lewwyns posts. I'm not used to a Lewwyn that shows signs of self-criticism. And especially his post which declared basically everyone scum, just to show us that he is really lost, doesn't sound right to me. It sounds more like "Uh, I really can't get into a villager mindset, so lets just play the 'I'm lost'-card." And I don't expect that behaviour from him at all.

So, despite that I agree with him in regards to Rowain (which might actually just show that we indeed have 2 wolf-parties) I will vote for him.

Lewwyn

[Tasunke]

Anyways, "ahem" to clarify:

I was Lazarus the Unholy Undead Tasunke, I was Tasunke, I was Tasunke "the Fear" McGee in honor of Druzee. I was all of these names (two of whcih too long to post as official names, so I had to do them in part)

As for Lazarus, I was planning to use a different personality to talk through him, but it clearly became evident that I would not be allowed to post through him, so I got mad about it :P ... and I took it out on 'Lazarus'.

I think its silly to focus on name-changes in the quicktopic when each name was clearly Tasunke. I did not try to use outright deception/ pretend to be another person/ etc. Not that I wasn't tempted to post as 'novice' mind you

The fact is, anyone could have posted under any name. If people had posted under different names, THEN there could be controversy about malicious intent, heck, maybe even about temporarily banning someone from the forums? (no precedent, so hard to say what the reaction would be, but I'd see a ban as quite possible, if decided by a vote). And that wouldn't be cool.

Still, if any game allowed such deception it would be Werewolf due to the deductive nature of the game -> it would add a layer to the puzzel, and only the person copied would know that they had been copied.

Perhaps I am not up to date on the quicktopic, but at least as of mid-day yesterday, I had not been maliciously copied by anyone.

I myself had not copied anyone in the quicktopic, for a number of reasons (primarily that I would have preferred to simply post under 3-4 multi-personalities each with something different to say, rather than try to stir up trouble by actually copying someone).

I just posted with the three flavors: (Lazarus, Tasunke, and Tasunke "the Fear" McGee)


-----> This being said, a game where people were allowed to copy/pretend to be other people sounds like a fun mini-WW game

[Tasunke]

one rule in theoretical new game, is that you can't post votes as a proxy/copy.

You can make arguments, you can insinuate votes, but you cannot actually vote when you are copying someone.

(in this way, it gives a measure of authenticity to the real poster as they can vote in their post to make sure ppl know its them saying it)

But honestly, it depends on how much effort ppl put into the game, and probably how *infrequently* they actually use the copy mechanism. I mean, if people just did copies all the time, I could see the game falling apart (if a person who posted a lot had more posts done by other people than themselves)

[Tasunke]

Yea, It'd probably fall apart ... but I think it'd be a fun experiment game (hence the mini- part of WW). But its not the type of game I'd host mind you. I'd rather host a more interesting game than all that (interesting being ... well less annoying, and more deterministic, I suppose)