WW17 - A Game of Thrones

[novice]

@novice You protected the wolf uberfish in WW8 lynched me and lost the game. You protected Gasspar and proceeded to lynch me the last game and low and behold Gaspar won the game as wolf. And now we havbe the same in repeat. So please go on do what you want ybut believe me you are again a total idiot.

Rowain, you apparently have an encyclopaedic memory of previous WW games. Why don't you use some of your mind capacity towards playing this game instead? Resorting to calling people idiots seems lazy.

I take it this is a final refusal to answer my question then?

Preview reminds me - did you explain why you tried to jump back from TT to Bigger?

Oh, and congratulations, Lewwyn!

[Lewwyn]

Couldn't sleep.

Novice I think I'm going to lean village with Mattimeo. In particular his first post was this:

Checking in.

Got an exam today, so unlikely to be very responsive 'til that's done with.

It's the first page. Wouldn't he throw a joke vote out if he were scum? Also as little as he has posted, the first post he does in the QT states his dislike for the QT and a later post mentions his lack of feeling engaged based on being forced to use the QT. When he said that it resonated with me because I was having a harder time staying engaged in the QT as well. Overall I actually think his behavior has been consistent.

We had earlier the discussion in which zakalwe stated that the argument that he is still alive and therefore Lewwyn is probably innocent is just bad. I agree with that. It is as bad as the argument Lewwyn makes here. "Yeah, he is not scum, he would make a joke vote if he were." Also remember how he dances around the question if Mattimeo is scum or not.

About Mattimeo. I still don't know for sure where I stand there. I keep going back and forth between him being scum and village because I keep remembering Matt being a townie in the SMAC game and acting exactly the same and getting lynched for it. But then I also know he was sort of like that last game. I can't remember if he felt that the QT was cumbersome in the wolf thread last game... I do remember him posting a lot in the wolf thread though.

Another: "I don't want to vote for Mattimeo but he actually really looks bad. I'll try to keep middle-ground and not say anything." Thats the theme every time Lewwyn got asked about Mattimeo. Especially the last sentence I find kind of funny: I'm not sure if he liked the QT but he sure posted much in it. What do you want to tell us with that Lewwyn? That we should not believe him that the QT is cumbersome? That we should believe him? That you actually just don't want to say anything about it at all?

Serdoa, I simply don't have enough from Mattimeo to make a determination. I can't say it any simpler than that. If you want to lynch mattimeo, lynch mattimeo. If you want to lynch me, lynch me. But I can assure that I simply don't know what his alignment is and therefore I look like I'm waffling, I get that, but I'm not going to declare Mattimeo is guilty or innocent. I was asked what I thought of Mattimeo. I answered the damn question as best I could by looking at different posts he made (of which there were little). I drew allusions to a time where he posted exactly as he has now and was lynched village. But I also know that in the wolf QT last game he said "I'm just going to do my lurking thing because its the same way I play village". What do you expect I do with conflicting information? Because that's what I have, conflicting information in which neither side seems to outweigh the other, yet.

Sure we can lynch Mattimeo as policy lurker lynch, but I honestly believe that we have a better lynch in Rowain.

[zakalwe]

If he didn't mind whether his vote was on Bigger or TT, IE: he suspected both and didn't mind who got lynched, why did he make such a big deal about it after the deadline?

I don't think he made a big deal of it? He was just annoyed that the forum ate his vote, quite understandably. But he conceded quite soon that the vote really shouldn't count. (Of course, you could argue that this was scum who decided that a 2/3 shot at TT surviving was a worthwhile gamble.)

At any rate, that whole scenario you're painting might be true, but I would need to see TT flip scum before buying it. Otherwise, it's just another "A is scum, so we should lynch B" argument. (I am willing to listen to other arguments for Rowain's guilt, though.)

[novice]

The voting above misses the novice switch. With that it is

Lewwyn (5) - Rowain TT Zakalwe Sareln thestick
Coco (3) - Mardoc pindicator Azza
Rowain (3) - Coco Lewwyn novice
Mattimeo (2) - Tasunke, Serdoa
Tasunke (1) - Mattimeo
Azza (1) - Qgqqqq

Not voting - Jkaen

Lewwyn is doing a fine job of emitting village vibes at the moment, with him we need to dig deeper though and look at his actual actions. He's happy to vote Rowain but seems to avoid Coco and Mattimeo, my other suspects. Still, I think I'm going to be an idiot about Lewwyn for now, hoping the situation becomes clearer when we know more.

Rowain is annoying as always, but I'm not stoked about my fellow voters there. I just want him to answer my questions anyway.

That leaves Mattimeo and Coco. I could go either way, I'm not impressed with what Coco's chosen to post when he's had the time, though.

I agree btw that Pindicator seems innocent - not that I've suspected him much this game anyway.

[Rowain]

Rowain, thats fine and all, but it actually doesn't answer novices question at all. Any reason for that?

Serdoa I have answered it already in the QT post 153.

And why I did it? Because it looked like a fun thing to do for me with all those talk about wolves.

How often do I need to repeat it?


Here is my so called nameclaim:

.... to find the wolves.

My petwolf is called Lady but you wont get it

Yes that was a joke and yes that happened 4 days past. Can you explain to me why it was not a theme then but is suddenly now??? Can you explain why me hinting at my name has any significance at all??

And why I did it? Because it looked like a fun thing to do for me with all those talk about wolves.

and one more time so that even some stubborn get it:
And why I did it? Because it looked like a fun thing to do for me with all those talk about wolves.

[Lewwyn]

I'm crossposting a bit with questions, but I'll try to answer as I go.

Lewwyn, why did you suspect Brick on day 1? He had that one post which I agree was scummy, but I really didn't think any of his walls of text or anything else that he said or did was particularly suspicious.

Specifically the one big quote post where Brick ends his quotes with comments by saying:

So from that, I have a village lean on Bigger, and scum leans on Sareln, TT, and Pindicator. I'm going to go with Twinkletoes89 for the moment, but I'm watching the other two as well.

I just latched on to that comment. I really thought it was too easy and too constructed. Then when he did his big WoTs on novice I actually thought that was something that could have been pre-planned, I also had a village lean on novice at the time so I saw him as trying to discredit novice. But I've sortof lost my village lean on novice now, too.

Beyond that I simply didn't have strong enough Day 1 reads on anyone else to want to push anybody else.

[Mattimeo]

But while I'm on the topic:
Mattimeo Lewwyn Sareln Mardoc

Four off-line players voting for Brick, who ended up with an extra vote that nobody claims responsibility for. Mattimeo and Lewwyn deny that they're double-voters. I think I'd like all four of you to comment explicitly on what you think about the hidden vote and what it might mean.

Explicit comments, also collating previous posts of mine:
I am not responsible for the double vote, as far as I am aware.
I agree with your idea that, lacking anyone claiming responsibility for it, it appears to be a scum-sourced vote.
This leads me to believe that it's *not* a simple "vote placed counts as two", as that would be exceedingly simplistic to track down after two or three days.
Which would then mean that possible sources of the extra vote come from a significantly wider field than first appears obvious (well, the whole game, rather than the 4 people on BRick, at least).

Implications:
Assuming scum with secret extra vote - either inactive at lynch time, or not caring due to all candidates being town. Though this would then point to being inactive, since not caring about a split really does imply everyone involved is town (or that a cover-gaining bus is in play).
The death of one of those involved in the split overnight is pointing me even further towards the conclusion that wolves, having fucked up and accidentally created two confirmed town (at least in their eyes, which are always more likely to see confirmed town than village are), are killing them off as fast as possible.

Conclusions:
if it's scum with bonus vote:
TT is town
scum possessing bonus vote was probably not around at lynch. Though that's really only a half an hour window, given the standard late rush on vote changing.

Not sure where that leaves us if the bonus vote came from town. Or if it actually was just a double vote.

[zakalwe]

Specifically the one big quote post

Yeah, that's the post I agree was scummy. (post 62: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid309336)

But in the QT in post 47, you also said "Brick's long WoT is really suspicious to me. You seem to be trying to explain away things."

That must refer to one of the big posts he made later. "You seem to be trying to explain away things" looks like you're stretching a bit.

[novice]

Yes that was a joke and yes that happened 4 days past. Can you explain to me why it was not a theme then but is suddenly now??? Can you explain why me hinting at my name has any significance at all??

And why I did it? Because it looked like a fun thing to do for me with all those talk about wolves.

If you claimed four days ago I think I've been asking about it for three days, as you should well know. So I really think you're being disingenious here. As for why I'm asking and why it's significant, I've explained that, and you've ignored it.

Specifically, you haven't commented on my statements about why early nameclaiming would generally be a bad idea. But I guess you're unwilling to admit to any mistakes with your play.

I agree with your idea that, lacking anyone claiming responsibility for it, it appears to be a scum-sourced vote.
This leads me to believe that it's *not* a simple "vote placed counts as two", as that would be exceedingly simplistic to track down after two or three days.
Which would then mean that possible sources of the extra vote come from a significantly wider field than first appears obvious (well, the whole game, rather than the 4 people on BRick, at least).

Implications:
Assuming scum with secret extra vote - either inactive at lynch time, or not caring due to all candidates being town. Though this would then point to being inactive, since not caring about a split really does imply everyone involved is town (or that a cover-gaining bus is in play).

I agree with all of this.

Coco.

[Mattimeo]

I'm still not getting that. If he had faked a name from the actual players I would have understood. If he had not written "Tasunke speaking" in his posts, I would understood. But he has not faked another player and he has clearly stated that he was writing those messages. You again state that you see malicious intent behind his actions. Please, explain what you expected this malicious intent to be. WHAT was he actually gunning for that was so bad?

The immediate turn-around to abuse 'whoever' has posted 'pretending' to be him tends to dispute the fact that he was clearly stating he had written those messages. His subsequent complete lack of response to people implying that they were all written by him is what makes me think there might have been something malicious behind the initial situation. I've no idea what exactly he thought he was gunning for, that would likely involve rather too much of an understanding of Tasunke for any same mind to comprehend and continue functioning.
Not entirely sure what to make of his recent response to the realisation that accusations of sinister intent weren't going to go away if he simply ignored them.