WW17 - A Game of Thrones

[Rowain]

In any case I feel his last minute voting was suspect. If he didn't mind whether his vote was on Bigger or TT, IE: he suspected both and didn't mind who got lynched, why did he make such a big deal about it after the deadline? I know why TT continued to bring it up, but it wasn't necessary for Rowain to.

Why are you lying Lewwyn?
My post about the subject are p247 in QT:

Interesting forum we have here. when I wanted to post Bigger I got : this is a duplicate of a message so it won't be posted.

and then post 268

@TT I did it (now) and I really don't know how this should be ruled now. On principle there is no prove I'm telling the truth so to avoid any possible dirty tricks it would be better if the current result is taken as the real one and lady Luck decides between you two.

So where do you see me making a fuss about it?
Again why are you lying, what are you trying to achieve? Where you so happy with the result Gaspar got last game that you want to try it here?

@novice post 374 on QT:

novice /m356

Rowain: Why did you change your mind from TT to Bigger from 21:57, when you voted TT, to 21:59, when you attempted to vote Bigger? What changed?

Nothing. I voted for both of them before. I voted TT to see what will happen after zak brought Bigger into the leading position. Got alot of responses and thought Bigger the better lynch.

Perhaps you should go and see a doctor those memory-lapses aren't a good sign.

[Lewwyn]

If he didn't mind whether his vote was on Bigger or TT, IE: he suspected both and didn't mind who got lynched, why did he make such a big deal about it after the deadline?

I don't think he made a big deal of it? He was just annoyed that the forum ate his vote, quite understandably. But he conceded quite soon that the vote really shouldn't count. (Of course, you could argue that this was scum who decided that a 2/3 shot at TT surviving was a worthwhile gamble.)

At any rate, that whole scenario you're painting might be true, but I would need to see TT flip scum before buying it. Otherwise, it's just another "A is scum, so we should lynch B" argument. (I am willing to listen to other arguments for Rowain's guilt, though.)

That's fine. It could be WIFOM, but the situation is driving me that way. As for other arguments for Rowain's guilt, what about his tone Zak? I believe we're finally getting a bit of pressure on him, but do you think he's been normal? As I said I think he's missing the edge. Posts coming from him now that I've stated it will try to emulate said edge though. That's always an issue with declaring all the reasons or tells we see about a person they'll try to work to correct them.

The voting above misses the novice switch. With that it is

Lewwyn (5) - Rowain TT Zakalwe Sareln thestick
Coco (3) - Mardoc pindicator Azza
Rowain (3) - Coco Lewwyn novice
Mattimeo (2) - Tasunke, Serdoa
Tasunke (1) - Mattimeo
Azza (1) - Qgqqqq

Not voting - Jkaen

Lewwyn is doing a fine job of emitting village vibes at the moment, with him we need to dig deeper though and look at his actual actions. He's happy to vote Rowain but seems to avoid Coco and Mattimeo, my other suspects. Still, I think I'm going to be an idiot about Lewwyn for now, hoping the situation becomes clearer when we know more.

Rowain is annoying as always, but I'm not stoked about my fellow voters there. I just want him to answer my questions anyway.

That leaves Mattimeo and Coco. I could go either way, I'm not impressed with what Coco's chosen to post when he's had the time, though.

I agree btw that Pindicator seems innocent - not that I've suspected him much this game anyway.

For the record I am willing to vote for either Coco or Matt as I don't see either of them as innocent, though I also don't see either of them as particularly guilty. I only really see them as lurking a bit. I would prefer to lynch Rowain, but I'm still a villager and a villagers job is to help the town catch wolves. If it takes lynching someone other than a confirmed villager (me) then I'll do it as long as I don't suspect them of being innocent as well.

If I had to choose between Coco and Mattimeo, I would lynch Mattimeo. Though I'm much more confident in Rowain's guilt.

I have to go to dinner I'll be back in a few hours. Dinner plus the walk after. Maybe I'll sneak on my phone to read though.

[Lewwyn]

Crossposting....

Specifically the one big quote post

Yeah, that's the post I agree was scummy. (post 62: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid309336)

But in the QT in post 47, you also said "Brick's long WoT is really suspicious to me. You seem to be trying to explain away things."

That must refer to one of the big posts he made later. "You seem to be trying to explain away things" looks like you're stretching a bit.

Yeah that one was also suspicious to me. But the big one was that quote post. And that's why I maintained suspicion of him. The other WoT for me didn't add to his innocence.

[Rowain]

Specifically, you haven't commented on my statements about why early nameclaiming would generally be a bad idea. But I guess you're unwilling to admit to any mistakes with your play.

You have still not answered my question why it does bother you and what you have learned from my name. And as i have shown I have answered your question at the time you asked it.(see above) And it took you 24 hours to ask the question.

BTW I find it funny that you find nameclaiming a bad idea when you were advocating a roleclaim early on in the last game

[Lewwyn]

In any case I feel his last minute voting was suspect. If he didn't mind whether his vote was on Bigger or TT, IE: he suspected both and didn't mind who got lynched, why did he make such a big deal about it after the deadline? I know why TT continued to bring it up, but it wasn't necessary for Rowain to.

Why are you lying Lewwyn?
My post about the subject are p247 in QT:

Interesting forum we have here. when I wanted to post Bigger I got : this is a duplicate of a message so it won't be posted.

and then post 268

@TT I did it (now) and I really don't know how this should be ruled now. On principle there is no prove I'm telling the truth so to avoid any possible dirty tricks it would be better if the current result is taken as the real one and lady Luck decides between you two.

So where do you see me making a fuss about it?
Again why are you lying, what are you trying to achieve? Where you so happy with the result Gaspar got last game that you want to try it here?

I'm not lying. I see it how I see it. In your comment about the duplicate message you bolded Bigger. Of course you can't force a ruling or complain too hard. You have to back off and say "I don't know how you should rule this because I don't want to be the one who says it but I'm just putting it out there anyway"

Shit my wife is pissed, she just walked out the door without me, godamn you euros

[zakalwe]

This leads me to believe that it's *not* a simple "vote placed counts as two", as that would be exceedingly simplistic to track down after two or three days.

That is true, and an interesting point. Although - it doesn't take that many days to win, anyway. But if we accept your premise, and take it to its logical conclusion, you could argue that all of the people voting for Brick are likely to be innocent. Because if someone else placed the hidden vote, then it was probably intended to frame not just the others on the block, but also the actual Brick voters.

This does suppose that scum had very fine control over the lynch results, though. Also, it's WIFOM territory.

Anyway, I think there could be a scum double voter, but he would need the ability to choose whether or not to double vote. Otherwise, it would be a self-defeating weapon. Though I agree that a scum who can place hidden votes anywhere seems a little more likely.

[novice]

You have still not answered my question why it does bother you and what you have learned from my name. And as i have shown I have answered your question at the time you asked it.(see above) And it took you 24 hours to ask the question.

BTW I find it funny that you find nameclaiming a bad idea when you were advocating a roleclaim early on in the last game

If we can't question things that happened more than 24 hours in the past, this game wouldn't work, would it?

I already told you that nameclaiming is bad because names relate to abilities, and claiming Sansa Stark frees up a spot for scum hunting for more powerful names. It's not a big deal, but it's odd to me that you would name claim "just for fun" without considering the implications.

In this game we know that scum have fake identities, so an early name claim would be unlikely to help town.

[novice]

Anyway.

Quicktopic post 330:

yeah, I won't have time to reread this today, work is killing me.

My feeling right now is that there are alot of villagers arguing for fear of getting lynched, I wouldn't be surprised if the larger part of the scum is just lurking.

The weak opening line aside, the rest of the post is also classic beginner's scum play. Speculate that scum are doing what scum are actually doing. Devious, right?

[Azza]

Purely from a meta perspective, I'd think a bonus vote would be a town ability, or at worst an anti-town 3rd party ability. The lynch is our most powerful asset, giving the scum a double vote seems like it would make it very hard to balance the game fairly between the factions.

[Rowain]

I'm not lying. I see it how I see it. In your comment about the duplicate message you bolded Bigger. Of course you can't force a ruling or complain too hard. You have to back off and say "I don't know how you should rule this because I don't want to be the one who says it but I'm just putting it out there anyway"

Hahaha.
telll me what is your theory for those action? You proclaimed me a traitor here already but failed to explain the actions of TT, Serdoa and myself in that light.
(I'm referring to that post)

Zak you mentioned this:

/m309 "Good news is I think we can clear TT. He switched to Pindi to save himself only everyone was already jumping. I think if he were in a wolfpack he would know who the other wolves would be landing on ahead of time. If that's true then Bigger and TT are both innocent. Brick and pindi were the last two on the block. Could be that either of them is scum. [In the next post] Or neither..."
Again he is quick to clear TT. This looks more townish, but since he already started defending TT he could also just be following up on that.

And yeah I've actually started to change my mind again. This was written in night phase before the kills. But TT may actually be scum if Brick wasn't and Ichabod suspected him. The deaths make me lean back towards TT as scum. TT may have been making a "preservation vote" but it was happening so fast its possible he as a wolf actually missed it. He didn't actually want to get his vote on Bigger though. But he knew Rowain a packmate would be voting for bigger (which fell through). -- Just what I've been thinking about today at work.

Lewwyn since when are you a member of the tinfoil-hats?
If I understand you right you say: Wolf TT didn't want to make the selfsaving vote on villager Bigger on whom he already was! So TT moved off Bigger and hoped that Serdoa and Rowain would move to Bigger in time to save him?.

What does place does Serdoas last minute vote have in your theory?

Your answer to that concluded:

Ugh, Rowain making sense makes me want to vote for him. But it actually makes more sense to vote for pindicator or TT instead.

what happened to that?