Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[T-hawk]

We are still only at 42 Great Prophet points in Mansa's Muse, and we may want to consider running a Priest there when it grows to size 4 in order to speed up that Shrine.

I'll throw in some micromanagement math. Each priest-turn accelerates the shrine by 1.5 turns as compared to the Stonehenge GPP alone. Each shrine-turn is worth say 4 gpt averaged over the medium term after a couple more spreads. So the priest is approximately equivalent to working a 0-1-7 tile, counting the hammer and gold from the priest himself. That's slightly worse than a cottage or mine.

The shrine's increased spread effect is quantifiable. An approximate chance for auto-spreads near the holy city is 5% per turn, doubling to 10% with the shrine. So the expected value of the increased spread chance is 0.05 religion-turns per atheist city per shrine turn. That could amount to nothing useful (if not in Org Rel and the city is under the happy cap), or to something like 0.05 * about 6 hammers if a mine and Org Rel each add 3. Take the midpoint for 0.15 hpt per atheist city and also 0.05 gold from the shrine itself. Suppose four connected atheist cities, so the shrine's expected value increases by approximately 0.6 hpt and 0.2 gold. So the priest is roughly equivalent to a 0-1.6-7.2 tile.

Finally, the GPP from both the priest and shrine itself also accelerate the second GP. That's hard to quantify. A Golden Age tends to have just about the same value whenever it happens on the growth curve. Most of the value in accelerating the second GP will be in adopting new civics sooner during that GA. But I'd lean in that direction because of how the timing works out. By running a priest or two now, we would probably be pushing out the second GP right about as we finish the Mausoleum. That would let us skip all civics changes now and pick them up during that GA.

So all in all I'm in favor of running a priest or two, but it's a very very close call. Damn, you guys did way too good a job in development balancing this game.

[mostly_harmless]

On top of what T-hawk says we also get a bit of culture sooner. Which is always nice, although it won't do anything noticeable to getting the 4th ring in MM. That will be mainly done by the doubling of the Stonehenge-Obelisk in around 15turns or so.
But every little counts, right?

So, I am in favour of getting the shrine up earlier by hiring priests.

mh

[regoarrarr]

Some options for Wyn the magical barb-slayer.

A) If we assume that the barb is heading NW for the copper, it will be on the copper in 2 more turns. We can spend one of those turns healing (we won't heal this turn since we've already moved). 15HP for healing in our territory, so we'll be 75/100 HP. We'll have 94.8% odds on the axe on the copper once it moves there, and would gain 2XP from the battle (and be eligible for a 2nd promotion).

B) We could move Wyn east to the forest to intercept. If the warrior attacks us in the forest we have > 99% odds but would only gain 1XP. It may be that the warrior won't take those odds though

C) We could just move Wyn back into Focal Point. We would still need to have something to kill the barb if it moves on the copper, and we wouldn't have time to heal at that point.

I favor Option A. We want to get 2 XP at a time, and that would leave only 2 more battles to unlock the HE. Getting only 1XP probably doesn't help us too much - we'd likely still need 3 more battles.

[antisocialmunky]

Bribing people with missionaries is also useful as they will spread it around for us.

[kalin]

A comment: I noticed on aptmod.com that Keep Clams has been founded. I don't care much about the name but I think the consensus was more or less for Gourmet Menu. Also, no need to give the information about the clams.

EDIT: Never mind, I saw in Sullla's screenshot that the name was indeed Gourmet Menu.

Kalin

[Sullla]

Turn 70 - 1200BC

German team double-whipped like 5 minutes before the end of the previous turn, which I was able to screenshot. It's over in the C&D thread. Now for the new turn:



The game has blessed our choice of the gems location with the coveted blue circle. Our spear is moving to come garrison the city, while the warrior serves on military patrol until it gets there. We spotted one of those panthers when I moved to defog the area; with the jungle defensive bonus and our barb combat bonus, we should have very high odds to win (well over 90%). And even if we would lose, barb animals won't enter city borders, so the city would be fine. Plan is to go explore the northwest with the warrior as soon as the spear is in range to garrison the city. We probably need an axe up here at some point soonish as well, if more barbs keep wandering into the area.



Here is the south. The main news was the founding of our fifth city, Gourmet Menu, as planned so many turns ago. It's working a prebuilt floodplains cottage and will have a chopped granary complete next turn. We'll expand borders and connect the clams here T80 if we don't get a religious spread before that. Too bad this city will be off to a slowish start - not a whole lot we can do about that.

As far as the barbs are concerned, the southern barb moved up next to the copper. If we want, we can have Wyn (our injured 4XP axe pictured) health this turn and try to whack it next turn. The problem here is that we don't know where the axe will move next turn - it could go north or northeast just as easily as northwest. I would rather just kill the darn thing with the axe in Focal Point right now, and let Wyn start moving over to Gourmet Menu this turn (moving northwest onto the grassland hill).

Keep in mind that our 3XP axe inside Gourmet Menu (Lew) promoted and is healing this turn, then will head out to explore the south starting next turn. I'm thinking of going southeast then south, to defog the maximum number of tiles. I'd rather kill the barb we can see and get started on exploring the south than stick around trying to farm more barb XP. After all, Lew has only one less XP than Wyn and might be out there for quite some time in the south. I haven't moved any of the axes yet this turn. Thoughts?



The borders from Gourmet Menu suggest that this lake isn't as large as it might have first appeared. In fact, it looks like it's exactly 20 tiles in size. Ah plako, you know the rules for bodies of water a little too well. I'll send the workboat south then southwest next turn, but it's starting to appear that there won't be much exploring to do. Let's see what we spot over there, and then we can decide what to do about the stone/horses.



This is a bit of a weird turn for us, as we are running a very high Food configuration. Mansa's Muse, Focal Point, and Horse Feathers will all grow at the end of the turn. In order to make this turn, Mansa's Muse has to drop the gold resource for one turn, so that it can work corn + deer + grassland cottage. (We don't have even one extra point of food, and so can't work the plains cottage.) Focal Point similarly must work the pigs and two grassland cottages in order to grow back to size 4. Gourmet Menu of course has its floodplains cottage.

It gets a little more interesting at the capital and Horse Feathers. We essentially have the choice of working either the 0/3/0 forested plains hill or the 1/0/3 water tile. The micro plan calls for the plains hill in the capital, but I would prefer the water tile, as diagrammed in this screenshot. Adventure One gets no particular production bonus from Imperialistic or Expansive here; it's essentially trading the 2/0/1 grassland cottage (2 foodhammers) for the 0/3/0 plains hill (3 foodhammers). Pretty meaningless, as we're not going for a specific whip target here. Then Horse Feathers gets the 1/0/3 coastal tile instead of the 2/0/1 cottage. Overall, that's a trade of 1 food and 1 foodhammer for 3 commerce. Since this map is so heavily commerce-constrained, I think we come out significantly ahead. The current plan we are using is located here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?...3Smc#gid=7 (There are some other things I want to change about this plan down the road, but I'll bring them up as we get to them. We shouldn't be working a plains hill forest at HF for 5 turns when we can very easily build another grassland cottage there!)

Note that this plan has us building a barracks in Focal Point. I would personally rather have us get a library here, or better yet more axes, but I leave the decision up to all of you. I don't value the barracks at all right now. We have all turn to make up our minds. (I would personally just build more axes. We barely have enough units and we'll be further expanding.)



Here are the Demographics at start of turn. No postroll score changes from anyone else included here. We have a huge surge in Food this turn, at the cost of decimating our Production. Don't worry though: next turn we'll be growing onto the gold mine, the copper tile, a grassland cottage, and adding a new city working the plains cows. Total addition of 7 Food, 10 Production, and ~12 commerce by my best estimate. We should be very near the leader in Food and GNP after that.

Have a great weekend everyone.

[regoarrarr]

How about Wyn heals and Lew moves SE to the forest. Or does Focal Point need a MP for happiness? I doubt the barb attacks an axe in a forest, and if it moves NE, then Lew can whack it. If it moves to the copper as expected, then Wyn can take it to hopefully move to 6 XP and if he loses at ~95% Lew is there to clean it up.

[SevenSpirits]

It gets a little more interesting at the capital and Horse Feathers. We essentially have the choice of working either the 0/3/0 forested plains hill or the 1/0/3 water tile. The micro plan calls for the plains hill in the capital, but I would prefer the water tile, as diagrammed in this screenshot. Adventure One gets no particular production bonus from Imperialistic or Expansive here; it's essentially trading the 2/0/1 grassland cottage (2 foodhammers) for the 0/3/0 plains hill (3 foodhammers). Pretty meaningless, as we're not going for a specific whip target here. Then Horse Feathers gets the 1/0/3 coastal tile instead of the 2/0/1 cottage. Overall, that's a trade of 1 food and 1 foodhammer for 3 commerce.

That's a bad trade. We can get a better ratio simply by whipping less than we have been. Working the 0/3/0 tile is better.

Edit: also I feel dubious about not working the gold, but I haven't had a chance to check the micro plan for a while so I don't really have a leg to stand on there.

[Shoot the Moon]

Note that this plan has us building a barracks in Focal Point. I would personally rather have us get a library here, or better yet more axes, but I leave the decision up to all of you. I don't value the barracks at all right now. We have all turn to make up our minds. (I would personally just build more axes. We barely have enough units and we'll be further expanding.)

I'd say an axe myself. I doubt we'd finish the library anytime soon (probably want to switch to a settler or worker sooner than the lib finishes I suspect, although I haven't looked at the micro plan to base that off) but the axe can be immediately useful.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I prefer building the axe. We need moar units.

Another idea, since we have 3 tiles of vision SW of Gourmet Menu, how about moving that axe 2S for some scouting? The axe screens for anything directly south, and we can always respond to anything to the southwest.