EitB 0010 Wishlist/Progress

[Qgqqqqq]

1. Hmmm. Maybe Rage? Feels a bit weak atm.
Agree Auric should have them.

2. ToD team wonder (is this possible?)

3. Don't know enough abpout high preists/druids, but intial reaction is to be careful about nerfing dwarven druids too badly.

NOTE: can't open spoiler atm.

Other stuff: one-turn golden ages for the religous events (this was mentioned earleir, but never changed).

[Sareln]

1. Hmmm. Maybe Rage? Feels a bit weak atm.
Agree Auric should have them.

2. ToD team wonder (is this possible?)

3. Don't know enough abpout high preists/druids, but intial reaction is to be careful about nerfing dwarven druids too badly.

NOTE: can't open spoiler atm.

Other stuff: one-turn golden ages for the religous events (this was mentioned earleir, but never changed).

Since you can't open spoilers -
1. Moved them to Divine Essence. Rage is really weak though, you're correct.
2. This is possible, rituals have this functionality already and I could steal it for buildings.
3. I figured knocking them down to channeling II (priest spells) while keeping the druid specials would be my first step. That way the high priests still give you something unique.

[NobleHelium]

I think it's pretty obvious to make the towers Team buildings. They are victory buildings after all, and victories are for the entire team. Perhaps all 4 of them should be made rituals (so that they can't be rushed) or ToM should require Omniscience. The consensus seems to be that ToM is still too easy compared to Altar victory.

I'm not convinced Liches that need to be so hard to get. Spellcasters are incredibly fragile and much less forgiving than other tier 4 units. Although you could say that combat in FFH is incredibly unforgiving in general. Still, I think requiring say Pass Through the Ether (so you're basically teching Strength of Will twice) is probably on target. Requiring Divine Essence is worse than requiring Malevolent Designs for people following AV and OO. Thematically, requiring Pass Through the Ether is a decent fit too.

Channeling II Druid change is probably good but they would lose Revitalize, which is significant.

[NobleHelium]

I don't think requiring Demon's Altars will do much to Beast balance. You can always build them in other cities at the same time as you're building the Grimoire. It would slow down the Hyborem rush if you made it national wonder, because Hyborem's second city will typically suck a lot more than his capital. But maybe a slight slowing of the Hyborem rush is what we want?

I also think Basium needs to be nerfed. It seemed obvious to change national units to be team units, but that would affect normal team games and I'm not sure if the doubling of the national unit thing is really what matters for Basium...

And I just realized that Liches at Pass Through the Ether is basically the same as liches at Malevolent Designs for AV/OO users. I don't know.

[Sareln]

@Noblehelium, dig at that Kernal some more, what makes Basium so overpowering? Is it the strength of the national units or is it more that most units for his team show up twice...

[HidingKneel]

My thoughts (mostly already posted in the other thread):

I think the revamp of the back end of the religion line is the one part of the EitB changes that I really don't like.
Righteousness/Malevolent Designs/Commune with Nature are all available too early right now. Sure, they're expensive, but this can cause problems if a player grabs them via ToD, Grimoire, or orb event. I think it would be best to restore the old prereqs
(Righteousness and Malevolent Designs behind fanaticism, Commune with Nature behind feral bond), to move
paladins back to Righteousness (so that it's not a 10000 beaker tech which enables only one unit), and eidolons back to Malevolent Designs.

In my opinion, this would help with many of the issues raised:

1) I think Basium isn't overpowered, but the Basium rush is presently overpowered because Basium gives iron,
and iron + fanaticism lets the Basium team build eight paladins. That's eight top-tier units, for the cost of a tech that isn't even at the end of its tech line. Paladins at Righteousness should solve the problem.

2) Putting Commune with Nature behind all of the nature techs would make druids less appealing as an alternative to high priests. Druids definitely shouldn't lose channelling III (getting at vitalize without having to go up the magic line ought to be a great reason to go for druids), but should probably lose access to the high priest spells. Maybe remove the ability of priests other than PoL to upgrade to druids? (I like the idea of the high priest spells being a unique reward for really investing in a single religion.)

3) Malevolent Designs behind fanaticism will slow down the Hyborem rush to Beasts without removing the danger altogether, which sounds about right to me (the arrival of Hyborem ought to signal "we'd better act fast before the gates of hell swing wide open", IMO). Also Beasts should be exclusive units to AV (or at least exclusive to evil players) for flavor reasons. (I'd extend this to paladins/eidolons/druids as well.)

Other thoughts:

Liches... how about available at strength of will, but requiring the tower of necromancy? (And maybe having them abandon if you switch away from evil alignment.) I think it would be good to have extra incentives to build towers other than the ToD.

Tower of divination should definitely be a once-per-team wonder.

I say restore Chalid to his former glory, but have him available at Righteousness. Empyrean only gets the one hero, so he ought to be a wrecking ball.

[Qgqqqqq]

This may be an odd position to take, but I just played my first Bannor game today, and considering the bonuses that towns get in EitB, was a little upset to see them dissapear for the (relatively) inexpensive Demagogs.
Is this an option that could be changed? The Bannor aren't particularity good anyway, and this kind of undermines their economy.

Another thing I would be interested to see (though its probably beyond the scope of this mod) is for things like forest growth, religion spread and so forth to be balanced by game speed.
As in a tile will only be checked to see if a forest should grow every two turns on epic, but 3 times every two turns on quick.

I actually think the tech tree finishes a bit too quickly (at least in SP) now.

I agree that vitalize shouldn't be lost from druids, and in general think the religous line of the tree is a bit too weak/expensive (not the early stuff, but the righteousness rage etc.)

[Qgqqqqq]

Also the disabling of peaceful builds should be documented in the Civics screen (for conquest)

[Sareln]

Also the disabling of peaceful builds should be documented in the Civics screen (for conquest)

Umm, for the Conquest Civic or the Bannor Unique Crusade Civic?

[Qgqqqqq]

Crusade.

Hells bells, does conquest do that too??