WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Bigger]

Bigger
Azza

[Tasunke]

Mayor Tally
Uberfish (3) - Novice, Rowain, Mattimeo
Bigger (2) Lewger, Bigger
MJW (2) – Uberfish, MJW
Zakalwe (1) - Zakalwe
Ichabod (1) – Slowcheetah
Pindicator (1) Qgqqqq
Slowcheetah (1) Azza

Lynch Tally
Azza (5) - Zakalwe, Uberfish, Qqqqq, Lewger, Bigger
Pindicator (2) Rowain, Ichabod
Selrahc (2) – slowcheetah, MJW
Lewwyn (1) – Novice,
Qgqqqq(1) – Mattimeo
Novice (1) – Pindicator
MJW(1) - Azza

[Qgqqqqq]

...

Lol same

I dont get ur problem with this though - what better reasoning could i have, random.org (or maybe last to signup :rolleyes: )??
Oh you wont revenge vote how nice, care to explain why you wouldnt revenge vote against the 4(?) other people on you? Not supporting revenge voting, but you go into such detail on me, and then ignore the rest?
To me that smacks of wolf focusing on an easy mislynch (Imho at least)

[Azza]

As a useless early vote Azza for last game.

As much as your reasoning and timing grates me here, I'm not going to revenge vote this time. Mostly since almost everything you do looks suspicious to me.

First off, Qgqqqqq saying the early vote is useless is mildly suspicious to me as well. Second off Azza saying its suspicious but not voting simply not to revenge is also suspicious to me. Also what is it about Qg's timing that irritates you??

He said it was a useless vote immediately after a vote count was posted, putting me equal leader.

...

Lol same

I dont get ur problem with this though - what better reasoning could i have, random.org (or maybe last to signup :rolleyes: )??
Oh you wont revenge vote how nice, care to explain why you wouldnt revenge vote against the 4(?) other people on you? Not supporting revenge voting, but you go into such detail on me, and then ignore the rest?
To me that smacks of wolf focusing on an easy mislynch (Imho at least)

You were the only one to try and justify your vote on me, saying it was useless implying that it doesn't matter. And if last game taught me anything, you're not an easy mislynch, at least for me to try and coordinate.

It's practically impossible for me to defend myself from the other votes because no one else has even remotely given a reason why they voted for me.

[Qgqqqqq]

I consider early voting useless b/c
a) I know I, for one, am unlikely to stay on a joke opening vote till eod
b) Its D1
I honestly didn't get the timing thing at first, but as I said, I doubt you get lynched today (especially after BRick last game).

I'd like to hear more form Zakalwe.

[Qgqqqqq]

Ehh, last game I was never going to get mislynched, (due to PR) or at least not after Lewwyn revealed (I protected JKaen).

[zakalwe]

Miss Redwall - its been ages .

05/02/2011 never forget

and random.org says Qgqqqq for now.

What if I don't believe that vote was actually random?

That's up to you, really. I was hoping it'd come up something amusing, like me, or you for the double mayor/lynch. But no, 5 it was.

On the other hand, this just smacks to me of pretending ignorance:

@Tasunke: how do you define a passive role (for the purposes of revealing)?
Is it just one that doesn't have to send in a pm?

Definitely not married to my current vote, though. Anybody comes up with something more convincing than "Azza fooled us last game" or "Pindicator just because" and I'll be glad to decide its merits...

1. I don't like how you randomly select someone to vote for, and then immediately find something non-random to confirm your vote. A bit too convenient.

2. That accusation against Q also feels a bit contrived, in general. I don't think scum with a passive ability would feel the need to bring up the subject, at all.

3. I don't think anybody explicitly said they were voting Azza because he fooled us last game, or Pindicator "just because". I don't like how you're putting words in people's mouth there.

Mattimeo

[Serdoa]

I certainly can see a point made for Azza. He does have 5 votes against him and he does nothing to inquire those who voted for him. That surprises me, especially as all of them have no reasoning behind their vote. But he does play as I would expect - unfortunately that means that there is no tell for either wolf or villager. Azza just plays silent, cautiously, no matter his alignment and I expect him to try to survive no matter his role.

So instead of looking what he did (because lets face it, I have no clue about his alignment from his play up to now and don't expect to catch him without some votes first or a lucky PR-read), lets see why others voted for him:

zak -> joke vote ("neurolingustic analysis")
uberfish -> follows zak
Qgqqqq -> joke vote ("useless early-game vote")
Lewwyn -> vote (without any reason; elaborates later on it but the reasoning he gives was only appearant AFTER he had voted)
Bigger -> vote (without any reason)

So out of 5 votes there are 3 stated as joke votes (or following those) and ALL 5 of them are without reason. I won't go into detail about zak and uberfish as both voted early and I have some idea why uberfish followed zak. Qgqqqqq on the other hand is interesting:

First he votes for Azza, stating clearly that he makes a "useless early-game vote". Interesting imo, as he adds the 3rd vote to Azza, what obviously makes this vote much more then the meaning he tries to give it. For me it reads more like "Yeah, I'd like to get rid of Azza, but I don't want to appear eager to get him lynched." It is hard to pass an opportunity like that as wolf, I know that.

To add to it, he later inquires waterbat immediately after waterbat posted why he did not vote. Before that post he brushed off MJWs reasoning for MJWs vote on Selrahc, by stating that he doesn't consider Selrahcs post to be suspicious, he thinks Selrahc just likes to be mayor. Well, that might be, but appearantly Qgqqqqq doesn't mind at all that Selrahc hasn't voted? I don't get that. Why would you inquire directly after waterbat posted why he does not vote if not because you see not voting as suspicious? And if you do see it as suspicious, why would you not react to Selrahcs post? Quite honestly, that was one of the most suspicious things I saw the entire thread: Selrahc making a long post to ask everyone to vote for him as mayor but not voting himself. "I want to be mayor... and thats why I don't vote for myself!". Yeah...

To summarize, Qgqqqqq appears imo suspicious for:

- stating he makes a useless early-game vote when it clearly isn't
- inquiring about wb's voting behaviour but completely ignoring the much more suspicious voting behaviour of Selrahc

Next in line is Lewwyn:

First thing I noticed is the bunch of meta he posted. I don't consider Lewwyn to be interested in meta-discussion so that makes me wary that he tries to achieve something with it, and the only thing coming to mind is posting something. What makes sense as scum, as you always feel you haven't appeared active enough. Also his first vote was on Azza without giving reason. I actually considered that as "in line" with what I would expect as Lewwyn likes to pile on (as some of us do) to see what happens. What I don't like is that he later states that Azza and Qgqqqq look suspicious for their voting behaviour. Not because I would disagree but because it reads like he posted it just to give a reasoning to his earlier vote. But that whole conversation between the two that he quotes only came up AFTER his vote. First voting, then having people post, then using what the posted as reasoning for your earlier vote? Yeah, doesn't make sense. Don't like it.

And then Bigger voted. Again a vote without reason. I guess I know why he did it (adding pressure) but I disagree with it. I think one can expect more from Bigger then that, especially with enough suspicious behaviour to act upon.

Lastly, to get away from that topic: Mattimeo

He first sated that he rolled a dice for his lynch vote. And then he stated that he is not married to his vote. That makes no sense. If you rolled a dice, you obviously are not married to your vote. Mattimeo let it sound like it would something necessary to point out when in reality it should be obvious. Why? I think he really just wanted to make clear that he can be swayed still as he found Qgqqqqs behaviour slightly suspicious (Qgqqqq inquired about the passive roles in a slightly off way). But the way he did it doesn't sit well with me. I'd not put it into "scum-camp" already, but something to look out for.

Ok, thats enough I guess. Votes:

Qgqqqqq - Reasons see above
Serdoa - Reasons? Well, read this post...

[Serdoa]

1. I don't like how you randomly select someone to vote for, and then immediately find something non-random to confirm your vote. A bit too convenient.

Agree.

2. That accusation against Q also feels a bit contrived, in general. I don't think scum with a passive ability would feel the need to bring up the subject, at all.

Don't agree. Depending on what was discussed in the scum-thread, they might be unsure about this and think bringing it up in the game-thread could answer their question AND give village-points. There are other explanations (trying to flush out someone with a passive ability for example) as well, so I think that is bending the reality to fit your argument.

3. I don't think anybody explicitly said they were voting Azza because he fooled us last game, or Pindicator "just because". I don't like how you're putting words in people's mouth there.

Mattimeo

Again, don't agree. Yes, nobody explicitly stated it, but the votes could be interpreted that way. I agree with your general suspicion zak, but not necessarily with the reasons you give.

[Qgqqqqq]

@world: yeah the passive thing was a bit stupid I just thought to clarify (it does work how i thought) and maybe i should have pmd instead, but it was a different setting and if it did work differently it would be be best for that to be in the game thread.
Erm Serdoa you realise passives cant reveal?
Also notice whove jumped on Azza? Everyone in WW17 endgame + Bigger.
More to come... (on phone).