WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Lewwyn]

3. I don't think anybody explicitly said they were voting Azza because he fooled us last game, or Pindicator "just because". I don't like how you're putting words in people's mouth there.

Everything people do has a reason. If none is supplied, I'm going to attempt to justify what it might be. They were the most plausible I came up with, and neither was sufficient to sway me to jump on either of the wagons.

First off what? The reasons that other people had that YOU came up with for voting a certain way didn't sway you? By Golly when reasons that people don't actually state don't sway you what is the world coming too?

He first sated that he rolled a dice for his lynch vote. And then he stated that he is not married to his vote. That makes no sense. If you rolled a dice, you obviously are not married to your vote. Mattimeo let it sound like it would something necessary to point out when in reality it should be obvious. Why?

To attempt to disassociate myself from the awkward situation where the first remote suspicion I came up with fell on the person who'd been randomly picked as my initial vote, as I anticipated it would engender views like

1. I don't like how you randomly select someone to vote for, and then immediately find something non-random to confirm your vote. A bit too convenient.

And now I get the fun choice of sticking with my random vote 'cause negligible evidence to suspect alternate targets has surfaced (suspicious, because I'm holding with a vote that was initially completely random, but doubted as such), and switching (suspicious, because I'm caving in to pressure suspecting my random vote was suspicious, and my reasoning for whoever I vote for won't be all that solid due to my general lack of insight on Day 1).

Screw it, sticking on Qgqqqqq 'cause the case Serdoa is building looks interesting.

The first part bothered me because it was squirmy, but now this second part here where you state you are locked into a choice because of pressure but also locked out of a vote because of pressure is just really squirmy, like someone caught lying and trying to lie their way back out with rationalizing.

Mattimeo

[zakalwe]

First off what? The reasons that other people had that YOU came up with for voting a certain way didn't sway you? By Golly when reasons that people don't actually state don't sway you what is the world coming too?

Yeah this is a very good point, Lewwyn. Mattimeo may be trying to skate off to thicker ice here. Maybe I'll switch back if there is momentum; I'll wait for Waterbat's retort first, though.

[Mattimeo]

Mattimeo may be trying to skate off to thicker ice here.

Of course I am. What possible benefit could there be for me in sitting out on fragile ice where I'm likely to be lynched, regardless of my alignment?

[Rowain]

Thanks for answering Ichabod but

My Pindicator vote was based on the fact that I didn't like his Zakalwe vote for mayor. The "I can read him well" justification just don't cut to me, since then you should vote for yourself.

strikes me odd as that reasoning was used by some in WW16 without triggering your suspicio-meter

and that part

Besides, I think it's better to vote for someone that hunts wolves well (zak is good at it, but that was not the reason Pindicator gave). And, as pretentious as it may sound, I thought Pindicator was going to vote for me as mayor (not only him, but he was one of the people I thought would vote for me), since I played good villager games last two games.

sounds very un-Ichabod to me.


inoffficial tally:
Qgqqqq(5) – Mattimeo, Serdoa, waterbat, Uberfish, Azza
Selrahc (2) – slowcheetah, MJW
Ichabod (2) - Rowain, Novice,
Novice (1) – Pindicator
waterbat (1) - Zakalwe,
uberfish (1) - Qqqqq,
Azza (1) - Bigger
Pindicator (1) - Ichabod
Mattimeo (1) - Lewwyn

No vote (1): Selrahc

[slowcheetah]

Besides, I think it's better to vote for someone that hunts wolves well (zak is good at it, but that was not the reason Pindicator gave). And, as pretentious as it may sound, I thought Pindicator was going to vote for me as mayor (not only him, but he was one of the people I thought would vote for me), since I played good villager games last two games.

sounds very un-Ichabod to me.

How exactly does it sound un-Ichabod?

[Rowain]

My picture of Ichabod is of a nice, humble person that nearly ask for pardon if he has to accuse somebody. Attacking someone because he didn't vote for Ichabod as mayor is IMO completly off.

[slowcheetah]

My picture of Ichabod is of a nice, humble person that nearly ask for pardon if he has to accuse somebody. Attacking someone because he didn't vote for Ichabod as mayor is IMO completly off.

Having thought about it, I can see what you mean. Lets add some more pressure

Ichabod

[Serdoa]

Mattimeo may be trying to skate off to thicker ice here.

Of course I am. What possible benefit could there be for me in sitting out on fragile ice where I'm likely to be lynched, regardless of my alignment?

Mattimeo, I still don't get it. If you feel you are in an akward situation and everything you can do is wrong, why don't you explain that? Instead you wait till you are called out on your behaviour to start explaining it - of course that leads to raised eyebrows as it seems like you only came up with an explanation AFTER you got called. And instead of explaining further and maybe even adding your own view to it, you just keep reacting to what is questioned. That won't work. Telling zak that of course your behaviour makes sense, no matter your alignment, won't strenghten the view that you are village. Quite the contrary tbh.

@Ichabod

You voted pindicator without reasoning. He questioned you about your reasoning - which you didn't give. At that point you had your reaction already, so there was no reason not give it. But instead you just stated that you believe that novice does not suspect him. And when he called you on dodging his question you still didn't answer, till you were actually called by Rowain on it. And now suddenly pindicator is the one who is suspicious because he doesn't let you get away with a suspicious non-reason vote? Just as a tip: When you are known for making long, thought-out posts about why someone is suspicious you shouldn't get surprised if someone gets suspicious of you when you just put their name in red...

[Ichabod]

Thanks for answering Ichabod but

My Pindicator vote was based on the fact that I didn't like his Zakalwe vote for mayor. The "I can read him well" justification just don't cut to me, since then you should vote for yourself.

strikes me odd as that reasoning was used by some in WW16 without triggering your suspicio-meter

and that part

Besides, I think it's better to vote for someone that hunts wolves well (zak is good at it, but that was not the reason Pindicator gave). And, as pretentious as it may sound, I thought Pindicator was going to vote for me as mayor (not only him, but he was one of the people I thought would vote for me), since I played good villager games last two games.

sounds very un-Ichabod to me.

I don't remember much from WW16 beggining, other than that I spent most of it defending myself after missing day 1. Though I think I suspected Pindicator in that early game too, probably not by the same reasoning. Anyway, that was worth pointing out here, I think, because I think is an easy vote to make on a target that is very ahrd to get oof you if he suspects you and that likes to be flattered, in my opinion.

I'm really confident about my reads after the last past games. If I had been mayor when there was the tasunke/Meiz tie, I would have guessed right (not saying Novice did a bad job considering what was happening, since I also suspected tasunke and there was a lot of meta in favour of Meiz). Also in the TT/Bigger/BRick tie (which was decided by random). But the main point is that the village lost the past games always with the same MO and doing the same old plays. I think i was more right than wrong, so I thought I would receive some votes.

I have more to say, but I need to do something now. I'll adress things later (Serdoa psot). I'll keep my vote on Pindicator while I wait for him to chime on this situation.

[Lewwyn]

Mattimeo may be trying to skate off to thicker ice here.

Of course I am. What possible benefit could there be for me in sitting out on fragile ice where I'm likely to be lynched, regardless of my alignment?

Mattimeo, I still don't get it. If you feel you are in an akward situation and everything you can do is wrong, why don't you explain that? Instead you wait till you are called out on your behaviour to start explaining it - of course that leads to raised eyebrows as it seems like you only came up with an explanation AFTER you got called. And instead of explaining further and maybe even adding your own view to it, you just keep reacting to what is questioned. That won't work. Telling zak that of course your behaviour makes sense, no matter your alignment, won't strenghten the view that you are village. Quite the contrary tbh.

I actually think its worse than that. You're looking at his actions from the point of view of trying to explain himself. But the way in which he's trying to do so is scummier part. Specifically the parts I highlighted earlier. And his latest bit about trying to save himself is even scummier.

Mattimeo is not trying to hunt scum, he is trying to save himself. Before he says that he can't change his vote and he can't stick with it, but now that his early joke vote on Qgqqqqq has developed into a wagon he'll just leave it there cause the case is "interesting"?