WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Lewwyn]

Serdoa I've been thinking about your response to my question when I realized you never really answered my question. See:

@Serdoa do you suspect anyone besides Qg? I mean you seem to be focusing pretty entirely on Qg. Your earlier post suggested you suspected me and Mattimeo as well, but since then you haven't really stated what you thought beyond retorts to others.

You didn't really answer my question at all. Instead you asked me to think about why others are attacking you/voting for you... You seem to think that if people are attacking you they are trying to get you off Q because they're scum? Am I reading too much into what you're saying? Now eventually here you've said Zak and you've voted for Zak, so I'm guessing you suspect Zak now. But Serdoa I agree with Zak now that you are reacting strangely. Either you're a villager who thinks everyone is out to get you or you're scum trying to sell the focused on your target angle and at this point I can't tell the difference.

[Lewwyn]

If he's innocent, I can certainly understand why Serdoa is voting Zak. If he's not village, he's playing up the fact that he's been "wronged" for trying to contribute. Someone mentioned possible dragon/SK role for Serdoa - I can see this as well. A little more upset than normal that he is being suspected.

Who brought up that idea? I don't remember. Serdoa as SK would make sense because he's definitely reacting strange.

[waterbat]

Serdoa, could you respond to my responses?
I'd like to hear your thoughtss on the case now that i'vee refuted it.

I'm not seeing it refuted, but honestly, half of your posts are making no sense for me due to the immense amount of typing errors and incoherent sentences, so I might very well not even have read it.

hhmmmmm..........

Qgqqqqqq
I really have nothing to say as I cannot get a solid read on anyone. That said I think Serdoa is really angry. So he is probably a villager or the Dragon.

Pindi's attack against me is too vauge for me to defend against and that's all I have to say about that for now.

Azza is a lurker so is a good lych target but some people are worse than him

Selrahc is posting even less and its been too long for the timezone agrument to really be that plausible. That said he could just being lazy like me. Selrahc has standards to live up to unlike Azza; however I'm not seriously think about Selrahc for now because there is someone worse than him.

Ichabod is lurkering, almost as bad ass Azza and Selrahc, and is considered a great ww player. That's pretty bad but add to that a strange thing he did and he gets my vote. The thing is him switching to Serdoa alone due to a post of mine and then suddenly switching off at the slightest pressure from Serdoa--as I said before.

@Lew: MJW in the above post

[zakalwe]

Ok, let me try to collect my thoughts, and respond to one paragraph at a time.

@zak, Q

I've answered all your questions. I answered even your barely understandable phone-posts Q and explained why they do actually not refute my case. I also didn't focus on my reasoning of your case. Stop pretending that, it did not happen. You are accusing me since nearly 10 pages now because of my starting post. Thats it. Thats why we talk about it. I've gone trough the thread and till you guys started I actually have once more posted about Q. And that was a direct answer to a post made by him which was not really helping his case imo. Nothing more. Everything else was started by you - and yet you use that to paint me as pushing Q.

You haven't answered all my questions. In fact, you keep dodging questions. When I ask "don't you wonder why people followed you on Q" you reply that I'm trying to twist your words, instead of just answering the question. I even rephrased the question because the first version apparently offended you, but still no reply. Also, I'm not painting you as trying to push Q. I'm just saying that your case on Q is weak. I believe I already clarified this. I also said that pushing him wouldn't be a scum tell anyway, so the whole point is moot.

Q himself also expects that I somehow take back my case. I won't. I still don't see why you would call a vote useless that isn't useless (and zak, the argument that we wouldn't talk about it if he hadn't called it useless is not making sense. "Oh, if he hadn't killed someone, we wouldn't talk about him killing people".. yeah, right, we wouldn't. What does that tell us?). Anyhow, there is more to it than that, but as I said before, I don't see it as a waterproof-case at all. I just pointed out that this behaviour was suspicious to me. Thats it.

This is fine, beyond the part that I already quoted separately.

So please, you two, show me where I focussed on Q. Show me were I pushed him? The only ones pushing are you two.

Well, I just said your case is weak, and I've given you multiple openings to debate other suspects that we might agree on, but as noted, you just keep brushing me off. So while I don't know why the whole thread is suddenly about Q (I guess everybody else clamming up has at least something to do with it), I don't think I'm any more to blame than you are.

Anyhow, what is asked now of me? That I go around and look for suspects? I've done that already, despite all the questioning and trying to derail the thread by you guys. And I posted it, go back and read. I had to defend since several pages against your accusations and I still have delivered more than you guys up to now. Whom do you find suspicious apart from me? Why?

Oh wait, zak told us already. All Q-voters. Isn't it funny that you guys jump at me because all my suspicions are about people defending Q but yet zak jumping at all people voting for him is totally understandable? Doesn't make sense.

In fact, all your play makes no sense zak.

This part is just a bunch of smearing, in my view. I'm not trying to derail the thread (from what, exactly?), and like you admit yourself I stated my lynch preferences quite clearly. So first you hit me with a rhetorical question aimed to make me look single-minded, and then you take the freely available answer to that question and pitch it as another point against me.

What is it about my play that doesn't make sense? That I haven't moved on from you to any of the other Q voters? I probably would have, by now, to be honest, if you hadn't reacted so strangely. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what your reaction actually means, though. Why be so incredibly stubborn and aggressive, as scum? IDK.

I'd like to hear some other players chime in here. On this Mexican standoff, or on anything else, really. If you're town then the thread is currently being drowned in fairly useless noise. (pun intended)

[Serdoa]

Serdoa I've been thinking about your response to my question when I realized you never really answered my question. See:

@Serdoa do you suspect anyone besides Qg? I mean you seem to be focusing pretty entirely on Qg. Your earlier post suggested you suspected me and Mattimeo as well, but since then you haven't really stated what you thought beyond retorts to others.

You didn't really answer my question at all. Instead you asked me to think about why others are attacking you/voting for you... You seem to think that if people are attacking you they are trying to get you off Q because they're scum? Am I reading too much into what you're saying? Now eventually here you've said Zak and you've voted for Zak, so I'm guessing you suspect Zak now. But Serdoa I agree with Zak now that you are reacting strangely. Either you're a villager who thinks everyone is out to get you or you're scum trying to sell the focused on your target angle and at this point I can't tell the difference.

I'll answer later to your actual question about suspects as I need to work now and that needs more time I feel. But as all that talk about me acting strange. Lewwyn, you know me very well from PBEM14 I think. How would you expect me to react when I am called an idiot (not jokingly, but in seriousness to insult me) and inane (again, not jokingly, but clearly meant to insult me). Yes, I am pissed and I actually was thinking about asking Tasunke to simply mod-kill me. If I need to let myself get insulted and react calmly and friendly to that, just because otherwise someone (hi zak) will use my reaction as prove for my guilt, then yes, I might sound strange. Do you remember the WW-game when Gaspar and I really had a bad fight about something he said? I am feeling pretty similar to that time. I'd like to scream and punch some people and tell them to go fuck themselves, but I try to stay rational and friendly for this fucking game. And I am honestly not very good at it.

And thats it for now, as I really need to get some work done even though I'd LOVE to go on discussing how I could be SK, dragon or maybe Tasunke in disguise...

[Lewwyn]

Serdoa I've been thinking about your response to my question when I realized you never really answered my question. See:

@Serdoa do you suspect anyone besides Qg? I mean you seem to be focusing pretty entirely on Qg. Your earlier post suggested you suspected me and Mattimeo as well, but since then you haven't really stated what you thought beyond retorts to others.

You didn't really answer my question at all. Instead you asked me to think about why others are attacking you/voting for you... You seem to think that if people are attacking you they are trying to get you off Q because they're scum? Am I reading too much into what you're saying? Now eventually here you've said Zak and you've voted for Zak, so I'm guessing you suspect Zak now. But Serdoa I agree with Zak now that you are reacting strangely. Either you're a villager who thinks everyone is out to get you or you're scum trying to sell the focused on your target angle and at this point I can't tell the difference.

I'll answer later to your actual question about suspects as I need to work now and that needs more time I feel. But as all that talk about me acting strange. Lewwyn, you know me very well from PBEM14 I think. How would you expect me to react when I am called an idiot (not jokingly, but in seriousness to insult me) and inane (again, not jokingly, but clearly meant to insult me). Yes, I am pissed and I actually was thinking about asking Tasunke to simply mod-kill me. If I need to let myself get insulted and react calmly and friendly to that, just because otherwise someone (hi zak) will use my reaction as prove for my guilt, then yes, I might sound strange. Do you remember the WW-game when Gaspar and I really had a bad fight about something he said? I am feeling pretty similar to that time. I'd like to scream and punch some people and tell them to go fuck themselves, but I try to stay rational and friendly for this fucking game. And I am honestly not very good at it.

And thats it for now, as I really need to get some work done even though I'd LOVE to go on discussing how I could be SK, dragon or maybe Tasunke in disguise...

Okay. That's fine. Problem is then you do need to take a step back and see how getting mad may be blinding you a bit.

[Lewwyn]

I'd like to hear some other players chime in here. On this Mexican standoff, or on anything else, really. If you're town then the thread is currently being drowned in fairly useless noise. (pun intended)

Well I think we should consider a lurker lynch. Did you not say that last game? Did it not lead you towards Coco, who while we never lynched, was scum? I think that may be a possible course of action here. There's also been a discussion of this in the last lurker thread about the culture at RB punishing those who step out too much and letting the lurkerdom slide.

In any case, guess who has the least amount of posts in the thread? Azza with 3. I know there was an early run on Azza and then that all devolved into looking at suspects of the people who made a run on Azza, but maybe we should revisit Azza, since Azza has since seemed to have gone to ground.

Beyond that I'm also still interested in Mattimeo who I think has overreacted suspiciously. Also the Ichabod/Pindicator relationship is weird.

[Lewwyn]

Also where did Uberfish go?

[zakalwe]

If I need to let myself get insulted and react calmly and friendly to that, just because otherwise someone (hi zak) will use my reaction as prove for my guilt, then yes, I might sound strange.

Since you're so fond of the "show me where" game, show me where I used your reaction as proof for your guilt. Oh and while you're at it, show me where I've been anything but civil to you.

Anyway... I like those thoughts, Lewwyn. I'm on board with Azza. Maybe Uberfish or Mattimeo, too.

[zakalwe]

Also the Ichabod/Pindicator relationship is weird.

What are you referring to here?