WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Tasunke]

You know I'm going to keep voting MJW between every tally, since my vote seems to be getting counted again.

fixed.

[zakalwe]

Slowcheetah, I general I like much of your recent couple of posts, particularly the way you're actually evaluating systematically who Q's partners might be instead of jumping straight to how it must be me.

I think you're being unfair in your rebuttal, though, when you're saying that I'm "trying to blacken you in every way imaginable rather than making a concise and pointed case". I think my argument was much more balanced than that. For example, I said that the voting record speaks slightly in your favor. Also, you say my case against MJW is very weak, while my case against you is desperate. Seems like you're not leaving much room for a middle ground there. Anyway, to respond to that, I don't think I've even made a case against MJW. I just asked him a question. Maybe I'll try to build a proper case later, but I really just wanted to hear his answer and thoughts in general, first. I didn't expect him to be completely absent for more than 24 hours.

I don't know if I sound desperate; maybe I do. Serdoa also says I'm being a survivalist, so maybe there is something there. The thing is - without going into further detail, lynching me really would be very bad for the town. It's hard to completely shake that thought from my mind and just play "regularly", whatever that means. So maybe I'm coming off as more defensive than normally, without really meaning to or noticing it myself.

"It was early on day one, isn't voting for pressure how things shake loose? Nothing looked tremendously ominous to me (ichabod had me fooled) so I switched votes."

What happened when you voted for Ichabod was that Rowain first said something sounded un-Ichabod, you asked him about that, he responded, and then you said: "Having thought about it, I can see what you mean. Lets add some more pressure."

Then, a while later, just as Ichabod had received a third vote and was becoming a viable lynch option, you made a post with thoughts on lots of other players, and switched off Ichabod, without saying *anything* about him, at all. So yeah, maybe what you're saying is the simple truth, but it's a bit odd, to me. Yes, you voted for Ichabod, but you could hardly have applied any less pressure on him than what you did. That said, I'm not sure a scum pair would even want to vote for each other at all. In a single-faction game, where the scum basically control the lynch, distancing is common. Probably not so much, if there are just two players per scum faction.

"Looks like he wants me as both Ichabod's and Q's partner? Deflecting to the max, probably."

I was outlining the various possibilities. Out of the various scenarios, the one where you're scum with Q seems the least likely. "Deflecting to the max" is again unfair, IMO.

[MJW (ya that one)]

:zzz: I cannot work up enough motivation to post anything. If the village does well the other teams will balance things out by killing only villagers. Only the last few days matter in this game. This will probably be my last post expect near the lych.

Selrahc, it is not a mystery why so many died. Tasunke spoiled the fact that there were many teams under prodding by uberfish. Each team other than village can nightkill. (This means uberfish is a villager or unnightkillable for obivous reasons. Making tasunke doing that is extremely pro-town. The only way scum-uberfish would do that if the only way he could lose would be to lyched). Are you really talking about me trying to guess who the wolfs are from meta-information we have? That is a lost cause in this setup. We are given no information on the roles. Also one player can have 2 roles. Azza was know to be innocent by novice and is a doublevoter. Because no one got a night action it must be an inate part of azza's role. With 2 roles there is just too many possiblites for me to even make a guess. I cannot even think about it.

Why did I switch to waterbat at the last second? Well I really had no idea if he or Qgqqqqqq were wolfs. So I was unsurely switching back and forth. Due to the bad lych tally I thought Waterbat was going down and switched to Qgqqqqqqq just to be different. When the lych tally was made well I had to chose bettween Qgqqqqqqqqq and waterbat. I went with waterbat because Qgqqqqqqqqq was posting a lot and I'm sure the village would be able to get him if he was a wolf. Waterbat is a lurker and is very hard to read and easy to lych. A very bad combo, so I went with him because I had no idea who the wolfs are.

I would rather kill a lurker today to set-up a decent endgame. But that won't be possilbe so I'll set-up a self defense vote on Zakalwe. That probably won't be enough so I might as well roleclaim to give the village as much infomation as possible. I'm a villager demon. I have 2 night actions that I can take BOTH on each night with infinte charges. They are to jail someone and the other one is to redirect a kill targeting me to someone else. I cannot jail myself and if I redirect to somone who tryed to kill me I die anyway.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Skiming over the thread nothing really sticks out to me. I forgot to say, my outragous role is other reason why I don't care about this game. I think there is a good chance that a majority of players have an outrageous role like that because of Azza--thi would make the game into a total joke--like lewwyn's mafia game were the village manged to kill a wolf almost everyday but still lost.

[Serdoa]

Wow. Just wow.

MJW

[zakalwe]

@zak

Before you get me wrong. I am still open to listen to you. But stop trying to twist what I ask you. Stop hitting just the most obvious stuff (like MJWs switch). Are you village? Then stop acting like a survivalist and help us find scum. 3 out of 8 players (Azza not counted and believing we both are innocent) should actually be a cakewalk. Thats nearly 50% chance to hit on scum. Put forth 2 targets and you are nearly required to hit scum, just by chance.

It's a good thing I read this before responding to your post before that, because I was very much about to "get you wrong".

Let's try to keep the lines open, indeed. I agree our chances should be decent today, on paper. It's just hard to get all that far by a process of elimination, since there are so many factions.

If you want me to throw out a couple of names right now, maybe Lewwyn and Mattimeo? I have a feeling that the remaining elemental(s) are deliberately lurking at this point, to evaluate the rest of us. So there's a decent chance that all of the remaining scum have posted at this point. Lewwyn tried to guide you very gently away from Q yesterday, and I got a bit of a "I don't want my mislynch to slip away" feeling from him today. I also don't like how Mattimeo makes a big post but says he'll probably end up on me in the end. Just jumping straight on me and staying there would make him look bad (at least once I flip), so he would need to make some token efforts elsewhere first. (Disclaimer: I haven't read his recent post all that thoroughly yet and I still need to do that, so maybe I'm being unfair here.)

I guess the above theory about the elementals lurking, contradicts my current vote on MJW, but I really want him to get back here. Lewwyn then, even though I know he's probably sleeping.

I did not mean to twist your words, btw. I just rephrase questions when I respond to them, so it becomes clear how I interpreted the question and what I'm actually responding to. I think everybody does that. (Or at least most of us.)

Ok. Cross-posting with MJW. Need to read that, too.

[zakalwe]

Um, about MJW. Would he fabricate a claim like that as scum?

It sounds like Waterbat is/was preparing to claim a pretty unusual role, too. I don't think it's unbelievable that Tasunke would go overboard with weird roles and combos. I just have a hard time seeing why MJW would play like this as scum. Why exactly are you voting for him, Serdoa? Just to get rid of a chaotic element?

What were your actions on night 1, MJW?

[Serdoa]

Tbh, I deliberately did not post why I vote him, because I would like to see if others do think the same that I thought when reading it. But it is not to get rid of a chaotic element, it does have a reason because of what he posted.

As for the roles: I have gone into this game with the expectation that the roles are crazy and overboard. I have not expected that anyone will be able to win this game by sheer good play (as it might be the case in a very power-light game) but that anyone who likes crazy will have fun. At least the lurkers should have a blast

[zakalwe]

Ok. I'll let you elaborate when you feel the time is right, then. But can you now tell me what the obvious reason for MJW's late vote switch was?

Unrelated: Bigger, I think you've proved your point by now that lurking is the most effective way to stay alive.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Um, about MJW. Would he fabricate a claim like that as scum?

It sounds like Waterbat is/was preparing to claim a pretty unusual role, too. I don't think it's unbelievable that Tasunke would go overboard with weird roles and combos. I just have a hard time seeing why MJW would play like this as scum. Why exactly are you voting for him, Serdoa? Just to get rid of a chaotic element?

What were your actions on night 1, MJW?

Jail azza. Confrimed villager. Does not have active night power-role; due to double voter and link to novice powers.

Redirect kill Mattimeo if possible.