WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Mattimeo]

Or you trust me that I am not a 4th faction. By Tasunkes own post I CAN'T be a 4th faction. I don't think that needs discussion but I am willing to go with you through his post in detail to prove you that he really did clarify exactly to uberfish that there will be only 3 scum-factions. He did post it in a clear and impossible to be misunderstood manner (though I think the issue here is that you have looked at the starting post by Tasunke and not the actual post in the thread when he told uberfish, so I hope after you read that post I quoted you will believe me).

I'll cede that point.

I think you do know that I'm the one who assassinated novice + Bigger but your error lies in the thinking that I'm scum.

Wait.

Why would village assassinate novice? That's crazy.

Rowain

Also, completely forgot the need for a new mayor.
Azza for obvious reasons.

[Rowain]

Why would village assassinate novice? That's crazy.

Rowain

To clear if he was a possessed or if he was a wolf saving another wolf or if he was honest. Read the end of day 1 trhere was already talking about that.

Me killing novice gave us 1 surefire villager (you) and ended any discussion about that. Do you think that bad?
Besides why would I not assassinate you on day 2 instead of Bigger? You are a doublevoting surefire villager after all.

And think about his claim: waterbat as Dragon. He killed with a poisonous arrow how does that fit with a Dragon at all.
And also think: He claims he can guard vs Wolves why did he offer the prospect to the Hunter first? If his assumptions were true I would take the deal - lynch Selrahc/waterbat - assassinate you and proceed with nightkilling and have a scum-victory.

[Mattimeo]

(To be entirely honest, I believe both Rowain and Serdoa about the others alignment, but I dislike a day kill more than I dislike a night kill.)

[Mattimeo]

novice because killing confirmed town is generally useful for scum.
Bigger because his claimed ability would be rather dangerous in a small population, regardless of his faction. More dangerous than a double-voting town, if you know there are still two other scum-factions operating out there.
</devils advocate>

Waterbat as dragon is definitely ludicrous. Waterbat as wolf seems unlikely given the kill with poison. Waterbat as a hunter... maybe. Which then brings out of Rowain and waterbat for the hunter spot (as dagger kill is similarly unlikely to be dragon or wolf either).
Selrahc for wolf, then?

[Azza]

Why would village assassinate novice? That's crazy.

Rowain

To clear if he was a possessed or if he was a wolf saving another wolf or if he was honest. Read the end of day 1 trhere was already talking about that.

Me killing novice gave us 1 surefire villager (you) and ended any discussion about that. Do you think that bad?
Besides why would I not assassinate you on day 2 instead of Bigger? You are a doublevoting surefire villager after all.

And think about his claim: waterbat as Dragon. He killed with a poisonous arrow how does that fit with a Dragon at all.
And also think: He claims he can guard vs Wolves why did he offer the prospect to the Hunter first? If his assumptions were true I would take the deal - lynch Selrahc/waterbat - assassinate you and proceed with nightkilling and have a scum-victory.

Serdoa could easily be dragon too, but you're holding a smoking gun that killed novice who had as good as revealed being a mason. At best, it's an awful move as a villager.

Azza

[Serdoa]

Why would village assassinate novice? That's crazy.

Rowain

To clear if he was a possessed or if he was a wolf saving another wolf or if he was honest. Read the end of day 1 trhere was already talking about that.

Me killing novice gave us 1 surefire villager (you) and ended any discussion about that. Do you think that bad?

Actually, yes. There was no need to kill anyone Day 1. We didn't know at that point that it would be so kill heavy and every vig should know by now that killing on the first night (or even first day as in this case) is dumb.

Besides why would I not assassinate you on day 2 instead of Bigger? You are a doublevoting surefire villager after all.

Because you thought Bigger is the Dragon. And that means a high probability of NK-immunity. Your assassination is needed to get rid of him, not of a double-voter. I ask myself all the time already what the wolves have for that.

And think about his claim: waterbat as Dragon. He killed with a poisonous arrow how does that fit with a Dragon at all.
And also think: He claims he can guard vs Wolves why did he offer the prospect to the Hunter first? If his assumptions were true I would take the deal - lynch Selrahc/waterbat - assassinate you and proceed with nightkilling and have a scum-victory.

He said he killed with a poisonous arrow. In the write-up, we just know that zakalwe was found dead and it states he was killed by poisonous, not how it was applicated to him.

As for why I offered the prospect to the hunter: To draw him out, as we need to get rid of him and his assassination. By offering it, I can hope he will take it, instead lynch him and go on with the game by protecting my fellow villagers. You assume I would have uphold my end of the deal, but why should I do that for scum? How should I even do that, I only control my vote. So no, I would not have really given you the deal I told you I would. Thats why I also didn't tell at the start that I have the wolf-protection as active. Had I done that, you would have known that I can't have interest to deal with the hunter.

[Serdoa]

Waterbat as dragon is definitely ludicrous. Waterbat as wolf seems unlikely given the kill with poison. Waterbat as a hunter... maybe. Which then brings out of Rowain and waterbat for the hunter spot (as dagger kill is similarly unlikely to be dragon or wolf either).
Selrahc for wolf, then?

Mattimeo, I know that waterbat as Dragon sounds stupid. But from the votes at D1 it doesn't seem that anyone wanted to help him. So he is most likely. I'm not sure I can tell you much more than I did already about my intentions. I explained why I can't be Hunter nor Wolf, so of course Rowain tries to paint me as Dragon. And yes, I give you that, it could be. I certainly got fire from wolfs and hunters. And I am pretty certain that Azza was not told of my protection for him N1. So it is hard for me to prove it, apart from: If I am Dragon and we are at 3-1-1-1, I wouldn't start such a play. Rowain tried to come up with a reasoning and he only could find "you felt lonely". And really, that is probably the best reasoning you'll get, because it makes no sense for the Dragon to reveal at this point. Especially right at the start of the Day. I would certainly start later in the day to try such a play, with less time for everyone to think it through. And only if I am actually in danger of being lynched. But at the start of today? Why? I can just wait. As I said SKs are mostly NK-immune from what I know. So it is safe to assume the dragon is NK-immune. So as Dragon, I wait for the lynch tonight. If it is not me of course. Then I kill Azza. Leaves at worst 2 villagers, wolf/hunter and me. I try to get the wolf or last villager lynched (now would be the time for desperate plays), NK the other and win. Thats how you would play it as Dragon imo. But doing a play as I did it? For what reason would I do that?

And therefore, if you do have questions about it ask me. But if you can't find any reason for me to do what I just have done, than please believe me. We need to lynch the Hunter and Rowain telling us he threw the Daggers is the best reason to believe that from the 3 scum-players we have (Selrahc, waterbat, he) he is indeed the Hunter.

[Mattimeo]

waterbat claimed a coming kill, that unfolded as he said it would. I can't see any choice other than to accept that he was the one responsible for it.
A SK is not going to have an additional kill up their sleeves in a non-bastard mod game, no matter how crazy we might think the game creator.
(and even if the dragon did, I can't imagine Tasunke not having it be in theme with the rest of the dragon concept. Dropping a rock on someone's head, maybe, if you really want to push the 'delayed' aspect of it, but not a bow.)
Waterbat as dragon *is* ludicrous.

If you can come up with some explanation that gives a reasonable account of how a solo player described the circumstances of a kill they did not cause, I'd be more inclined to listen to your theories on the matter.

[Rowain]

Actually, yes. There was no need to kill anyone Day 1. We didn't know at that point that it would be so kill heavy and every vig should know by now that killing on the first night (or even first day as in this case) is dumb.

Exactly because I didn't know this game to be soo killheavy. We had the discussion earlier (when you claimed that protecting Azza is a good move for scum) For me having a surefire villager is the best thing a village can have and the worst for scum. But you also MJW scummy because he protected our double-voting villager.

Because you thought Bigger is the Dragon. And that means a high probability of NK-immunity. Your assassination is needed to get rid of him, not of a double-voter. I ask myself all the time already what the wolves have for that.

Nonsense. First I never thought him as Dragon or wolf. Isaw him as scum. Second you mean killing the Dragon is more important than killing a doublevoting villager (who will become mayor too)? Or for that matter a martyr who makes 3 kills to be only 1? You really believe that?

As for why I offered the prospect to the hunter: To draw him out, as we need to get rid of him and his assassination. By offering it, I can hope he will take it, instead lynch him and go on with the game by protecting my fellow villagers.

Your protection? Didn't work that well on night 1 didn't it? I think your talk about protection is just to give reasons why you are still alive when Azza dies in your fire.

[Rowain]

If I am Dragon and we are at 3-1-1-1, I wouldn't start such a play. Rowain tried to come up with a reasoning and he only could find "you felt lonely". And really, that is probably the best reasoning you'll get, because it makes no sense for the Dragon to reveal at this point.

Your feeling lonely was 'tongue in cheek'. You self addmitted that you love extreme risky play.
It makes sense as a Dragon in a 3-1-1-1. You get the village to lynch me. In the night you burn up Azza and don't care whom the others kill because you are NK-immune. You are talking about it so much that I think you are telling any remaining scum clearly to not nightattack you.

In a 5-1 it makes also sense as a desperate move. Trying to look like a good villager to Azza&Matt get them to lynch everybody else and burn them up one after the other.

And lastly you have now to concede that waterbat as Dragon makes little sense. I think you can also agree that me beeing scum but not killing Azza or slowcheetah is far fetched at best. In short your list of the 3 scums can't be right.