Gillette Turn Discussion

[Old Harry]

Turn 80

Occam will grow unhappy in two turns, but our chariot Sensor 3 can sit in as MP to keep it happy. In three turns the warrior will complete (the new pop works the plains hill), by turn 87 we'll have a size 10, happy capital.


BoG has the missionary complete in one turn, the forge will be ready t90.


SC will spend the next 11 turns building a forge.


BR will whip the library on t82, the work boat will be ready t87 just after the borders have popped.


SO I'm just not sure about - I'd like it to grow to sz 2, but it doesn't have any other tiles to work yet and we need more workers and settlers. So perhaps a worker?


BoS will settle t82 - any thoughts on the plan here? I haven't ended turn yet to let you guys input.


On religion - only BoG and SC would benefit just now. Once we've got it spread more it might be worth the turn of anarchy..


Demos

[YossarianLives]

I'm not sure that transportation trick would work. If they select their axe and click to move it onto the tile with our Settler, won't they get a pop-up asking if they are sure they want to DOW? If they select yes, wouldn't they move in to kill the settler? I must admit I'm pretty confused about how all that works. We did get that NAP with M3, didn't we? Is the settler going in a controversial area?

[Cheater Hater]

I'm in favor of settling the c? over the northern city?, for three reasons:
1. Assuming we can't get the copper, the cities are basically the same
2. The city? will get culture swamped quickly--any idea when M3's city expanded borders for the first time?
3. The extra city we would gain from settling the northern city? isn't that good--the southern city? seems like filler at best, and we have lots of other cities to settle in the meantime.

Why do we need the Colossus so badly? Most of our cities are inland, and Financial already gives us lots of benefit on water tiles.

I feel like OR should whip a forge before growing to infinity, especially since it's about to hit the happy cap--maybe build a forge until it grows, (3?) whip, then go back to the warriors plan?

We should settle our copper sooner rather than later as well, especially if we are worried about M3--maybe right after the city discussed above?

Definitely build a worker in SO, though I'd build a warrior until size 2.

If you're going to build military in SC, I'd rather build the settler for the copper first (assuming it's not already being built). In addition, we have two food sources there, so why can't we (2) whip the forge? We don't have cottages there, so taking a bit to grow shouldn't be that big a deal, and it gets us the copper faster.

For BOS, will we have Math by the time the Granary finishes? (or the time we whip it?) We could just chop a forge there, then maybe build military there.

I think you're worrying too much about M3's axe--even if they got a couple workers, the punishment for breaking the NAP would be much worse for them in terms of the rest of the game. Cover the settler if it makes you feel better, but don't lose worker turns or delay the settling over it.

Religion swap is certainly not worth it yet--I wouldn't consider it until we hook up the copper and can't produce warriors for cheap HR happy anymore (we spent the research and anarchy to get to Monarchy, we might as well take advantage of it ).

[Old Harry]

I'm not sure that transportation trick would work. If they select their axe and click to move it onto the tile with our Settler, won't they get a pop-up asking if they are sure they want to DOW? If they select yes, wouldn't they move in to kill the settler? I must admit I'm pretty confused about how all that works. We did get that NAP with M3, didn't we? Is the settler going in a controversial area?

I've checked in world builder - it doesn't give the pop-up if you are sharing a tile - you have to declare war first. We negotiated over sites, but nothing was ever finalised... I'm just worried at tempting them, that's all. Probably over nothing!

[Old Harry]

I'm in favor of settling the c? over the northern city?, for three reasons:
1. Assuming we can't get the copper, the cities are basically the same
2. The city? will get culture swamped quickly--any idea when M3's city expanded borders for the first time?
3. The extra city we would gain from settling the northern city? isn't that good--the southern city? seems like filler at best, and we have lots of other cities to settle in the meantime.

I like this reasoning.

Why do we need the Colossus so badly? Most of our cities are inland, and Financial already gives us lots of benefit on water tiles.

We're vikings and it seems a waste not to settle loads of coastal cities. But you're right, it doesn't do anything for us yet. Maybe come back to it if it's still available when we have more coastal cities settled.

I feel like OR should whip a forge before growing to infinity, especially since it's about to hit the happy cap--maybe build a forge until it grows, (3?) whip, then go back to the warriors plan?

OR will get a max of 8 hammers a turn for a long time, and we only have one happy that it would boost - so that's 120 hammers for 2 hpt and 1 happy. How about if we grow it first, then when we've got it working all the cottages possible we build a forge?

We should settle our copper sooner rather than later as well, especially if we are worried about M3--maybe right after the city discussed above?

Yeah, lets make that our next city after c?

Definitely build a worker in SO, though I'd build a warrior until size 2.

If you're going to build military in SC, I'd rather build the settler for the copper first (assuming it's not already being built). In addition, we have two food sources there, so why can't we (2) whip the forge? We don't have cottages there, so taking a bit to grow shouldn't be that big a deal, and it gets us the copper faster.

How about slow building the forge, then 2 or 3-whipping the settler once the anger has worn off, then completing the forge?

For BOS, will we have Math by the time the Granary finishes? (or the time we whip it?) We could just chop a forge there, then maybe build military there.

Math is due 9 turns after sailing (12 total) we don't have a lot of production here but I think the forge will be good to enhance slavery - I think we can whip out a lot of units...

I think you're worrying too much about M3's axe--even if they got a couple workers, the punishment for breaking the NAP would be much worse for them in terms of the rest of the game. Cover the settler if it makes you feel better, but don't lose worker turns or delay the settling over it.

Paranoia does creep into this game after a while...

Okay, I'll go play the rest of the turn with this lot in mind.

[Old Harry]

I've updated the micro sheet to include the settler and forge from SC and worker from SO.

[Cheater Hater]

First of all, c? and the copper city should get real names before too long--any sharp ideas? (and ideally make their acronyms a little different than the others--having the pairs of SC/SO and BOS/BOG is already a bit confusing )

I think you're overstating the importance of being coastal just a bit--but notice that our copper city is also going to be coastal, and it might even be a better city to build the colossus in because of the copper, and it has the same amount of forests.

While I agree with your analysis for SC regarding the forge (since the city will stop growing for a shorter plan under your plan), but I still think you're undervaluing the forge for OR. Assuming we don't produce more than 8 hammers from OR the rest of the game, the forge will pay for itself in only 60 turns, a relatively short time. In addition, that happy makes up for delaying the first HR warrior at least partially.

[Old Harry]

First of all, c? and the copper city should get real names before too long--any sharp ideas? (and ideally make their acronyms a little different than the others--having the pairs of SC/SO and BOS/BOG is already a bit confusing )

I'd be happy to rename the duplicate names (I've been getting confused too) how about Types of sword?:

Broadsword
Claymore
Curtana
Épée
Estoc
Foil
Gladius
Katana
Longsword
Rapier
Sabina
Sabre
Schiavona
Scimitar
Spatha

Or other bladed weapons:

Battle axe
Halberd
Hatchet
Lance
Pike
Stiletto
Trident

I think you're overstating the importance of being coastal just a bit--but notice that our copper city is also going to be coastal, and it might even be a better city to build the colossus in because of the copper, and it has the same amount of forests.

Yeah, you're probably right. I think we need to get island hopping soon to see how important the colossus could be. After the work boat in Blade Runner lets build another work boat or a galley (any preference?)

While I agree with your analysis for SC regarding the forge (since the city will stop growing for a shorter plan under your plan), but I still think you're undervaluing the forge for OR. Assuming we don't produce more than 8 hammers from OR the rest of the game, the forge will pay for itself in only 60 turns, a relatively short time. In addition, that happy makes up for delaying the first HR warrior at least partially.

How about if we delay the forge until we've got to size 13 (I think about t95)? We won't be working the plains hill to grow so won't miss out on the bonus.


And by doing that we gain 3 commerce per pop per turn (to size 10 - only 1 beaker after) and work a cottage for each extra pop - I think that works out to about 50 extra commerce over the 15 turns.

Anyway the turns just landed, and M3 didn't kill the settler so I'll go play...

[Old Harry]

Turn 81

I think we've scouted as much of M3 as possible, after we get a view from this hill should we go investigate Lewwyn or head home?


Down south I want to uncover a coastal Troll city to enable trade routes with them with sailing. If not we can road from Smooth Operator to the deer tile.


Blades of steel is founded. Trapping the troll scout in our culture. I guess we need to offer open borders to let him escape. The bad news is that our economy can't even break even at 50% science. So it's three turns until sailing. I've set us to 0% for a turn.


The other bad news this turn is that Trolls just completed the Pyramids. It's fine, we didn't want them anyway...


In Occam's Razor we have two turns of whip unhappy left, I'd like to expand quickly to size 10 using the marked tiles (probably converting the farm to a cottage, but perhaps just using the farm to grow quicker). To whip a forge we would be at size 8 on t83, with (possibly) 14 hammers in the forge, so that's a 4-pop whip. Given our problems with research whipping those cottages would be pretty bad right now.


Blades of Glory starts a forge, but we may need to interrupt for the next missionary.


SC will work according to the microplan for the next 10 turns. Descartes is building a farm on the NE river for it to grow onto before we whip the settler.


I screwed up the tile micro in BR last turn - should have been on the mine to complete the library one turn earlier, I've redone the plan to grow straight after we whip instead and added some highlighting to the micro spreadsheet when tiles change so I don't do it again (hopefully).


The worker in SO gets a lot of overflow from a chop and will grow on a warrior for a couple of turns before finishing the worker with another chop. The Missionary spread Budhism here this turn so borders will pop t91.


Finally welcome to Blades of Steel. These names are getting silly. I'm all for changing them.


Demos:

[Cheater Hater]

I don't have any real preference on names; I just wanted to point out the confusion--I wish there were more punny names, as I liked those

A Galley is obviously better than a workboat long-term if we're going to go island hopping, but I don't know off the top of my head how much more a Galley costs than a workboat, and where the island hopping fits into our future plans (not until after the copper city at least).

Speaking of cities, I looked at the save and noticed you have city 9 planned for east of city 7--why? It's not getting us anything useful, and it's going to be swamped by culture. I'd rather settle CITY! as I said before, then fill in that peninsula (assuming we don't go island-hopping first)--then again, we might not be settling many more cities after the copper city until we get our economy in order (which may not be until after Currency--hopefully Sailing will at least stabilize our economy so we can make that push).

Your plan for OR seems fine--I'd skip the farm and go right to 11, then go to the grassland north of that (I feel like Epicurus should stay improving OR for a bit and Confucius can improve SO with Hobbes (so that city can be more useful quickly), but I'm not the best at worker micro).

If we don't need our warriors right away for HR happyness, keep scouting!

Everything else seems fine