[SPOILERS] PB1- Mardoc buys a can of paint for Thoth and Ellimist

[Thoth]

by t114 the Gnomes may have Gibbon on the board.

So lets explain that our god's bigger than their god:

http://youtu.be/NtWB0IQ3AMc

They've shown us their god. Let's send them a warhead.

'cause boots on the ground now >> fancy boots later.

And we have boots. Now.

Let's get some use out of them.

[Qgqqqqq]

Thanks for the overview guys
Given a choice do you mine or mill a forested hill? (Hmm that rhymes)
On that note do you mill at all (or are you just low on worker labour), or do you just chop?

Furthermore, I mAy hve lost it at some point, but what economy's(/civics) are you pushing?
It looks lie orcs are in aristocracy/conquest and I'd assume aristograrian to the max for calabim but what about the other slots(/Elohim)?

[Thoth]

We'll mine the forested hills.

We'll be milling but we only just got Archery this turn, so they won't be showing up for a bit yet.

We are a bit light on worker labour (founding a city a turn for 10+ turns will do that ) but we're catching up.

Orcs are currently in Aristocracy/Consumption/MilState/City States/Undercouncil. The combination is producing an obscene amount of gold right now, it'll slacken in a few turns once the Orc GA ends but we're in rock solid economic shape here.

The Calabim are currently in Arisoto/Religion/Milstate/Agrarianism/undercouncil. We'll want them in Nationhood for some extra military hammers in a turn or two once we've got another Whales/Ivory connected. We'll keep undercouncil for the moment. At least until we've voted in our candidate and passed a resolution of our choice or two. Overcouncil would be a better eco civic, but we're doing fine on the eco front so control of the Undercouncil takes precedence.

Elohim are running Aristo/Religion/Milstate/Ag/Overcouncil. We'll probably swap into Conquest once we have another Elohim GP and IW so we can mass draft 2xp Ogres. For the moment, they're helping our tech pace stay strong.

[Qgqqqqq]

Hmm thanks!
I never seem to get good use out of religion/military state, with apprenticeship overshadowing for high exp adepts and NH/religious civic locking it out...
Query: are drafted units half exp as in BTS?

[Qgqqqqq]

Furthermore: what over teams are in the councils?

[Thoth]

Hmm thanks!
I never seem to get good use out of religion/military state, with apprenticeship overshadowing for high exp adepts and NH/religious civic locking it out...

Religion is quite useful for the extra happy points, we've gotten good mileage from it so far. We'll be shifting the Calabim into NHood shortly, but we need an extra happy source connected first. (t111 I think)

Since we have FotT, we don't need the exp from Apprenticeship anymore and are running Mil State both for the extra unit support and the extra military production.

Query: are drafted units half exp as in BTS?

Yes. We probably won't do much Orc drafting (emergencies excepted) as the Orc core cities have Warrens and will have their tile improvements configured for max hammers/just enough food over the next 10t or so.

The Elohim OTOH, have a bunch of new cities with no infra and lots of food. TYs are only 67h and let us draft Axes and later Ogres. We'll need Conquest in order to get a promo on draftees, but that should work out well given our timetable for IW. We can arrange for the Elohim to pop a great something or other for a GA around that time.

Furthermore: what over teams are in the councils?

Team Warbaxia are all in Overcouncil (and have the Councilorship).
The Gnomes and Clowns are both in Undercouncil, the Illians appear unable to join either council (Agnostic trait I presume).
and TeamnotReddit haven't got Trade yet so aren't in either council.

[Thoth]

I had a look in game.

The Calabim can 1t Kote with their own beakers t110.

So we can cash rush a Shaman pair in Blue t111.

With our present builds and some attention to detail, we can have 4 orc chariots, 4 orc wrs, 2 body1 shamans (one with either Shadow 1 or Spirit 1), 6 mob 1 Calabim Catapults, 4 combat workers, 6 or 7 new built Moroi plus the Moroi/Bps we have on hand (5? 6? more bodies) in Napa in time to haste the attack stack, road two tiles towards Saltus and hit the city with 6 cats and around 20 hitters on t114.

Unless they've heavily reenforced since the last time we looked at Saltus (and we can arrange for a look before we commit ) then we're taking that city on t114.

[Mardoc]

I don't think that +10% hammers is worth a turn of anarchy. Not when that's the only benefit we're getting for the revolt, anyway.

Might be worth revolting later, if we add another swap, although I'm not sure what would be worth swapping - maybe if we ever leave Aristo or into Sacrifice the Weak for more feastable pop? But for now, it's definitely not worth losing a full turn's worth of hammers and research in order to have a slight military bonus later on. We're currently at 115% military hammers, anyway, so it would take 12 turns to pay back the hammers alone, and then only if we do 100% military. And as you've pointed out, Calabim beakers are worth quite a bit at the moment, too.

Moderately confused on the Saltus plan. Don't really have the time to check it out in detail - but...is a dead Clown city worth missing out on guaranteed insta-mages? I actually think it probably would be, so long as we can do decent hammer ratio. Probably raze it, though, don't try to hold it. Theory here, of course, is to keep them thinking about military now instead of military in 20 turns, plus of course a razed city always hurts.

Even if they have Gibbon next turn, by T114 the most he could have is 15 XP (5 from Conquest/App, 2/turn from channelling/hero). That's...3 promotions, either no Snowfall, or only Snowfall (no Mob, no combat - probably not horrible damage either). That said...couldn't we do the same on T115?

Also, um - does your plan still work if they have a Floating Eye up by then? I'd rate that as pretty likely, myself, and we know they have the tech for it and adepts built - the only question is if they have a Meta node built and a promo spent.

[Thoth]

I don't think that +10% hammers is worth a turn of anarchy. Not when that's the only benefit we're getting for the revolt, anyway.

Um. The Calabim are in a GA. So no anarchy. Only issue is happy and we'll have 2nd whales t112 and second Ivory t111. So Nhood turn 112?

Moderately confused on the Saltus plan. Don't really have the time to check it out in detail - but...is a dead Clown city worth missing out on guaranteed insta-mages? I actually think it probably would be, so long as we can do decent hammer ratio. Probably raze it, though, don't try to hold it. Theory here, of course, is to keep them thinking about military now instead of military in 20 turns, plus of course a razed city always hurts.

I think it is worth possibly missing the GC. And I'd like to keep that city (it'll have to be Calabim, the only thane available to pop it out of resistance is Calabim. It gains us a third Ivory (and denies an Ivory to the GnomeClowns) plus access to their road net from a defensible position. And puts us in position to pillage one of their gems sources.

Even if they have Gibbon next turn, by T114 the most he could have is 15 XP (5 from Conquest/App, 2/turn from channelling/hero). That's...3 promotions, either no Snowfall, or only Snowfall (no Mob, no combat - probably not horrible damage either). That said...couldn't we do the same on T115?

Also, um - does your plan still work if they have a Floating Eye up by then? I'd rate that as pretty likely, myself, and we know they have the tech for it and adepts built - the only question is if they have a Meta node built and a promo spent.

They won't need floating eye to spot our attack on t113. We'll need to have the cats and most of our stack in Napa that turn. The Adepts arrive t114 and Haste/Blur the stack. Combat workers road 2t towards Saltus then the cats go in. I don't think they'll have enough units in the area to hold the city against what we can throw at them. We'll be able to scout the city safely ahead of time with a WR, so if it turns out they do have a mega stack in Saltus and we can't take the city.....then we'll be quite glad we have a decent stack of our own nearby

They're worried about us getting Vampires soon. Which is good, 'cause we are getting Vampires soon. But it means they will be preparing defenses. I think we can bag Saltus with some grubby boots before we get our shiny boots in play. But we'll need to be fast. They'll see our settling party t111. We'll found Napa (if they don't kill the settling party) t112. That gives them a couple of turns to react. If they have the local boots available and/or the cash to buy a bunch of mercs they may be able to hold Saltus. But the faster we move the less likely that is.

If we can grab Saltus with acceptable casualties (ie 2/3 cats, all four chariots, all 4 wrs and 4 or so Moroi dead) then we should have enough troops on hand to defend the city. That gets us a forward base of operations, Raider access to their road net, an extra happy for us and denies two happies to them.

I think that's worth risking the GC for.

We won't have Sorcery until what? t130?

Insta Elohim Mages would be very nice, but our main thumpy thumpies are Vamps and Ogres.

We can afford a 1t delay on MS (even if it means missing the GC) if it means we can hit Saltus a turn earlier.

[Ellimist]

Remember that Calabim need to adopt overcouncil as well (before the golden age ends.)


And half the point of going for the GC was so that the Balseraphs have a tougher time getting their mages. They already have sorcery. If they beat us to it... we're going to be kicking ourselves for not getting it immediately after currency.