[SPOILERS] Tatan, CFCJester and Nakor try their hand at Mansu of India...

[UnforcedError]

Serdoa also has MC due to the Oracle which is a serious advantage on this map. Are we still sure we want to prioritize IW instead of MC once Mono is in? We will have chariots by then after all. Also, they could have whipped forges by now, being IND so the number of cities doesn't really say that much at this point. If I was him I'd build 1-2 triremes and start harrassing us. Losing all our seafood would be a serious blow and they could later take all our cities at their leasure. The GLH is nice to have, after all. What else would be the reasoning behind oracling MC on a water map? Sure, I don't have too much MP experience against opponents who know what they're doing but I do have a few years experience against a Deity AI. And an early MC can win you the game on a Deity water map if used correctly. We're just much weaker than a Deity AI at this point.
In fact I'd probably forget about Mono for the moment and get MC. Definitely settle horse city next as planned.

[Nakor]

Serdoa also has MC due to the Oracle which is a serious advantage on this map. Are we still sure we want to prioritize IW instead of MC once Mono is in? We will have chariots by then after all. Also, they could have whipped forges by now, being IND so the number of cities doesn't really say that much at this point. If I was him I'd build 1-2 triremes and start harrassing us. Losing all our seafood would be a serious blow and they could later take all our cities at their leasure. The GLH is nice to have, after all. What else would be the reasoning behind oracling MC on a water map? Sure, I don't have too much MP experience against opponents who know what they're doing but I do have a few years experience against a Deity AI. And an early MC can win you the game on a Deity water map if used correctly. We're just much weaker than a Deity AI at this point.
In fact I'd probably forget about Mono for the moment and get MC. Definitely settle horse city next as planned.

MC is indeed a big advantage. We'll have to move MC up in our list of techs. Might go there after IW. We do need metal to be able to defend or tech Archery. We'll also need IW to chop down that jungle.
Mathematics is high priority as well.

And we need Mono to get missionary's and OR. We're still on a nice landmass that we can settle ourselves. Just need more units to keep island cities safe.

We can always try to get on friendly terms with Serdoa, that would help.

[CFCJesterFool]

Nakor pretty much sums it up re: MC. I'd also like to add a few things.

For us, MC only adds triremes right now...we won't build forges anytime soon (i.e. not Industrious). At best, we would have 50% odds trireme vs. trireme..still way better than only having galleys. The problem is without iron, we have no means to defend ourselves really for quite some time (i.e. HA, catapult or longbow). Archers just won't be enough..done too many successful axe rushes on Imm/Deity to feel safe defending only with archers (anyone with metal will have spears totally negating our chariots).

Another thing to consider is later game units. Without iron we can't build x-bow/mace/knights etc. I did successfully test rifle/treb using the sandbox but that was against the AI. Waiting until rifles to gain more land probably way too late. Longbow+catapult rush could work but I'd rather beeline CS than tech Fuedalism earlier than we need to.

We need IW/Math/(Currency)/Monarchy/MC/CS. We do have two good options to attain these techs. The first way would be tech roughly in that order, bulbing Currency. Another way would be to tech IW/Monarchy/most of Math/bulb MC/finish Math/Currency/CS. I think the Currency bulb is better myself (additional trade routes). It is still too early to say we're going to do x when the game might dictate we do y. We do have options so I am not overly worried about triremes just yet. In fact, now that I think more carefully about it, keeping the MC bulb open (don't finish Math) probably best so Monarchy after IW is what I'd advocate.

Almost forgot...Happy New Years everyone.

[UnforcedError]

Happy New Year

If you think it's possible to agree on a NAP or something it's fine. Otherwise triremes would serve us better than iron (besides, we don't know if we have iron at all, do we). Serdoa is not a Deity AI either so he cannot have IW as yet. And chariots + warriors for cannon fodder are OK defenders otherwise. Archery is useless right now, I agree. If we tech Mono I don't think we need Monarchy that urgently. Probably IW and MC after Mono then?

[Nakor]

Happy New Year everyone!

I think we need to check what bulbing Currency will do for our tech rate.
Getting Math's is important to use those forests we can still chop to build more settlers/workers/military.
Monarchy is important since we then can get into HR and hook up those wines to grow our cities bigger and work more cottages. And we need Iron to build Axes/Swords should there come an invasion or if we want to invade someone.
One Galley with 2 Swords can do very nice things against Serdoa.

And if Serdoa is playing the Industrious trait to the max he'll go for Colossus and maybe Pyramids as well before building an attack force with or without triremes.

A NAP is not possible since we only play with AI diplo on.

[CFCJesterFool]

Happy New Year

If you think it's possible to agree on a NAP or something it's fine. Otherwise triremes would serve us better than iron (besides, we don't know if we have iron at all, do we). Serdoa is not a Deity AI either so he cannot have IW as yet. And chariots + warriors for cannon fodder are OK defenders otherwise. Archery is useless right now, I agree. If we tech Mono I don't think we need Monarchy that urgently. Probably IW and MC after Mono then?

We absolutely need to know if we have iron. Our tech path will be heavily affected by whether we have iron or not. You should keep in mind that our first GP will be a GM and in mp you don't do trade missions like sp. We are either going to bulb Currency or MC. The reason I want to research Monarchy after IW is to keep the MC bulb open while still finishing techs that we need (we do have wine after all). If we have iron, then bulbing MC becomes a no-brainer. Mace rush anyone? Maximizing our research will be key and tbh I don't mind bulbing MC (it is the more expensive tech after all, so cheaper to self-research Currency). Also I kind of doubt that Serdoa is that close to us...Space is much closer (we can see his cultural borders) and he won't be getting triremes before us. My guess is Serdoa shares the same landmass as Space...too early to try to conquer far away land especially since he is behind on expansion due to Oracle).

[UnforcedError]

My concern was that we're absolutely helpless against triremes. Serdoa has no way to know that we don't have copper (he surely knows that we haven't built anything better than a warrior as yet though), but he sure as hell knows we don't have MC. If we can't do any diplo there is no secure way to keep him from plundering all our seafood (apart from elimination), right?

[CFCJesterFool]

I think we need to check what bulbing Currency will do for our tech rate.

Hi Nakor, hope New Years is going good for you so far. I am doing a sim right now. I already know Currency is good for us but I am testing MC bulb right now so I can directly compare bpt. Also working up further micro past T68. I'll have a summary of different options we can take in a few hours.

[CFCJesterFool]

My concern was that we're absolutely helpless against triremes. Serdoa has no way to know that we don't have copper (he surely knows that we haven't built anything better than a warrior as yet though), but he sure as hell knows we don't have MC. If we can't do any diplo there is no secure way to keep him from plundering all our seafood (apart from elimination), right?

Yeah, you would be right about us being helpless against triremes...which is why I am simming now. The quickest path to both Currency and MC imo is the ideal..good economy plus we don't have to fear triremes. The one thing I never understood about PR...only used sims when I made them. I sure love playing in (accurate) sandboxes (kept telling them to post BUFFY logs derp).

[UnforcedError]

Yeah, you would be right about us being helpless against triremes...which is why I am simming now. The quickest path to both Currency and MC imo is the ideal..good economy plus we don't have to fear triremes. The one thing I never understood about PR...only used sims when I made them. I sure love playing in (accurate) sandboxes (kept telling them to post BUFFY logs derp).

In fact you and I were the only ones who did some serious testing in SGOTM 16 (Btw can't you tell them to post pictures for lurkers as well? :D )
If we can get a market right after the Currency bulb is in it should be doable pretty quickly, so that sounds fine.