Gillette Turn Discussion

[Cheater Hater]

Yeah, tons of turns--will you be able to monitor diplo during the weekend while I'm playing? At this pace we might get past T100, and I don't really want to be playing during war (not to say war is coming on T101--I don't think war is good unless you really see an opportunity for permanent growth and have extended our NAP with Trolls)

Any particular reason why you keep using binary research? The rounding issues aren't that bad right, and it's not like we have libraries currently being built right?

For Occam, how about we slow-build a forge while continuing to grow on the cottages. I'm not sure on axes vs spears--he has axes we can see, but he also has horses right? Still, I don't think Occam needs to pump out military right now, especially when we still have a forge to build. If it grows before we have another cottage, we could start a scientist in Occam for a turn or two.

Those two missionaries are for copper and the hill city right?

I think we can afford a barracks because of our power spike--what would an ETA on the barracks be, and how does that fit in the timeline of copper being hooked up and Foil moving to units. I also wouldn't mind another worker, since it looks like Foil isn't going to be improved in the near-future, at least the wheat and horses--what do we want to do with the rest of those tiles?

Clearly whip the trading post--we want the galley (which is coming out of there next) to have Nav 1, and we don't want to wait that long. There's only two more cities we really want that we don't need a galley for (one in the east next to Trolls, then one on the penninsula) and yes, that island spot is great

Epee will be fine--those tiles aren't that important, and if we need those tiles we can build a library and monastery there, since it looks like it's going to be a science city.

Where do you think we should go next in terms of tech? Also, now that we're accelerating our island plan slightly, do we want Colossus a bit more? Where does it fit in terms of our copper city--go Granary->Forge->Colossus, assuming no military threat?

It's already halfway around to us--though you're probably in bed already--maybe you'll get two turns in tomorrow

[Old Harry]

Yeah, tons of turns--will you be able to monitor diplo during the weekend while I'm playing? At this pace we might get past T100, and I don't really want to be playing during war (not to say war is coming on T101--I don't think war is good unless you really see an opportunity for permanent growth and have extended our NAP with Trolls)

I'll keep an eye on the mailbox. You should probably just get one turn a day, which gets you to t94. And you don't have to play for 24h if it comes in at an inconvenient time so don't feel rushed.

Any particular reason why you keep using binary research? The rounding issues aren't that bad right, and it's not like we have libraries currently being built right?

Just in case someone researches it halfway through, or we get a library online halfway through. Also it makes for flexibility if we suddenly need to change plans. I was planning to run 50/50 for the last turn to make sure we get it with as little gold to spare as possible, but with two extra cities going down in the next three turns I have no idea how long it'll take to research. Binary isn't something I use normally as it's a hassle, but if you can be bothered it's a decent idea.

For Occam, how about we slow-build a forge while continuing to grow on the cottages. I'm not sure on axes vs spears--he has axes we can see, but he also has horses right? Still, I don't think Occam needs to pump out military right now, especially when we still have a forge to build. If it grows before we have another cottage, we could start a scientist in Occam for a turn or two.

I'm not convinced on the forge yet - we don't make many hammers in Occam and we don't want to whip off cottages - I think at most it gets 4 hammers a turn (8 if we work the mine, which I'm not keen on) which means a 1 hammer bonus so the forge takes 120 turns to pay its cost back. Occam's never going to produce much, but I'd be happier with slow-building units that can be whipped if we're desparate and that will be useful straight away. We have a spare cottage it can use with the next growth and will build another couple in the next few turns.

Those two missionaries are for copper and the hill city right?

Yep.

I think we can afford a barracks because of our power spike--what would an ETA on the barracks be, and how does that fit in the timeline of copper being hooked up and Foil moving to units. I also wouldn't mind another worker, since it looks like Foil isn't going to be improved in the near-future, at least the wheat and horses--what do we want to do with the rest of those tiles?

Clearly whip the trading post--we want the galley (which is coming out of there next) to have Nav 1, and we don't want to wait that long. There's only two more cities we really want that we don't need a galley for (one in the east next to Trolls, then one on the penninsula) and yes, that island spot is great

I agree with all this.

Where do you think we should go next in terms of tech?

I wish we knew a bit more about what everyone else has researched, as MOM or the Great Library would be nice, but we want a bureau capital as soon as possible, so maybe head for civil service?

Also, now that we're accelerating our island plan slightly, do we want Colossus a bit more? Where does it fit in terms of our copper city--go Granary->Forge->Colossus, assuming no military threat?

That sounds good to me, I think we only have four forests to use, so I don't know how quick we'll be - 1 chop for the granary, whip the forge and chop colossus will take a while, I think we want to build some farms to get it growing quickly for the whip... How many hammers in a forge?

It's already halfway around to us--though you're probably in bed already--maybe you'll get two turns in tomorrow

It's here! I'll get to it in three or four hours, and hopefully leave the spreadsheet in good shape for you.

[Cheater Hater]

I forgot about someone else researching it as a bonus--I understand that it's "strictly better" if you can afford the hassle, but it just doesn't seem worth the hassle for me (but we've seen how poor my micro is )

I guess we still won't use the forge--I'm just caught up in that it's extra value, and forgetting the opportunity cost of those initial hammers :/

If you really want to know what people are researching, why not research Alphabet? I know it's basically a dead-end tech for a while, but we'll need it eventually--and what are the restrictions for spies in this game? (Note: I'm not endorsing this plan just yet)

I know Bureaucracy is kinda the default goal for this part of the game, but it doesn't seem horrible, especially since we want irrigation in a lot of places (most notably by Foil--we may even turn Foil into a specialist city at this point)--has Confucianism fallen yet?

[Old Harry]

Turn 91

Here are the TEAM borders.


They've just got currency, which makes me think they'll get MOM soon, although Trolls might have something to say about that. Civil Service (with machinery) is also good for us for the Berserkers - galleys and a few Zerks could raze or steal M3's Great Lighthouse? Re: Alphabet - I've no idea if spies are banned, if they are it's probably not worth it...


Gladius is settled and the missionary will get to it in two turns. The copper will be hooked t93 and then I think we want a couple of farms.


Our last warrior, then some archers.


Missionary in four turns, then I think we need to start getting units rather than barracks here and in Foil.


We have time to build a barracks here though.


Moai coming soon


2-pop whip the worker next turn


1-pop whip the forge next turn


Granary->Forge->Colossus? Work boat from here or Dirk?


Power - nothing from M3 yet. I wonder why? I'll send an email poking them about the NAP in the morning...


Demos

[Cheater Hater]

MoM comes from Calendar, so why would Currency mean they're closer to MoM? (unless you think they're just going faster in Tech--the GNP graph would be somewhat useful for discerning this

Looking in the settings vote topic, it looks like there's no spies, so Alphabet isn't worth it just for tech visibility and building research, not until we get closer to Printing Press and/or other teams research it first (in which case we get the benefit indirectly, especially one of our friends researches it).

I forgot about Zerks, which definitely pushes us in favor of Civil Service--you mentioned M3's Great Lighthouse; where is it?

I'm not sure Gladius needs that many farms, except over the sugar temporarily--lots of river means lots of cottages--however, if the focus will be on the Colossus for the near-future, we don't need to improve it that much.

Yeah, I'm getting worried since you still haven't seen anything from M3, right? Get those chariots ready just in case if we can spare the worker turns to road that hill. On the other hand, maybe their diplomat just hasn't shown up yet after the holidays? Is it worth sending a reminder email, maybe with a revised offer? The exchange over the accidental city visibility went better than expected though--maybe too well?

Workboat from Dirk probably--if we start it after Moai finishes, we'll still get it there around the time borders pop right?

What's going on with Trolls? Their power is competitive with us--maybe they're the one we should be worried about? Or can their spike be explained another way?

So I'm taking over the turns starting now right?

[Old Harry]

MoM comes from Calendar, so why would Currency mean they're closer to MoM? (unless you think they're just going faster in Tech--the GNP graph would be somewhat useful for discerning this

Just that if they started researching it now (which seems reasonable) they are going to beat us to it as we need Currency - our break-even research rate dropped again with the founding of Gladius...

I forgot about Zerks, which definitely pushes us in favor of Civil Service--you mentioned M3's Great Lighthouse; where is it?

I think they only had the coastal city near us when they built it, so it must be there.

I'm not sure Gladius needs that many farms, except over the sugar temporarily--lots of river means lots of cottages--however, if the focus will be on the Colossus for the near-future, we don't need to improve it that much.

It should definitely get cottages later, but I think we need to get our pop up to 4 to 2-pop whip the forge before chopping forests into Colossus. I've microed it out to t105, and I think we only need one farm. Once the borders pop we'll have great food, but until then it's a bit crappy.

Workboat from Dirk probably--if we start it after Moai finishes, we'll still get it there around the time borders pop right?

Borders will pop t103, so the work boat needs to be ready t97 which interferes with our Moai plans too much. I've planned Gladius out to t103 on the spreadsheet and I think it's best to whip the boat from there. What do you reckon?

Yeah, I'm getting worried since you still haven't seen anything from M3, right? Get those chariots ready just in case if we can spare the worker turns to road that hill. On the other hand, maybe their diplomat just hasn't shown up yet after the holidays? Is it worth sending a reminder email, maybe with a revised offer? The exchange over the accidental city visibility went better than expected though--maybe too well?

Just sent the reminder - I was thinking that they were a bit too easy on the exchange. I think the thing we need to think about is what style a potential attack would take - horse/chariots or axe/swords? I'd guess the former because it'll be quicker and they've been showing us melee units. So I'd like to get at least two spears and an Axe in Foil, BOG and Halberd by t100 with zone defence units capable of reinforcing wherever they do attack. It would be good to get a road on that tile by t99, but I haven't worked out where else the worker turns are needed at the moment.

Would we be better to part-build units so it'll only take a turn to finish them, then build barracks if M3 don't declare and finish the units with extra experience?

What's going on with Trolls? Their power is competitive with us--maybe they're the one we should be worried about? Or can their spike be explained another way?

Our NAP with them is to eot 115. I think hope it's tech or gearing up to go after TEAM.

So I'm taking over the turns starting now right?

Yep, it's all yours - good luck!

[Old Harry]

Been thinking a bit more about defense... I think we want extra spears in Foil and extra axes in BOG, since horseback units aren't going to get any benefit attacking BOG.

Also we want to get archers and axes out of barracks for city garrison and melee promotions, but spears don't need promotions to be effective, so they can come from normal cities...

The other thing is not to jump the gun, lets keep a close eye on M3's power graph before running away with military spending...

[Cheater Hater]

Turn played: More scouting:
   

Not much else with regard to the turn (I whipped the worker, moved workers as suggested, followed all the signs), so now an info dump! First the research tree (minus Polytheism and Monotheism) so we can discuss what's next (even though it sounds like we're on the path to Civil Service, it would be nice to know all the alternatives):
   

Next, the GNP graph--also known as I hate binary research:
   

Now Power--Trolls went down? Are there barbs in this game, did we miss a war, are they deleting units, or am I missing something else?
   

Demo time!
   

[Cheater Hater]

A nice tidbit that didn't fit in the previous post and isn't that relevant--hooray for winning the culture battle!
   

P.S: Is there any way to make the screenshots smaller without having to upload them externally? I tried the screenshot tag in an attachment, but that didn't work

[Old Harry]

You'll have to shrink the image or open a dropbox account... lower your civ screen resolution?

I'd guess trolls whipped - each 2 pop counts as a soldier.