WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Bigger]

I normally keep up with this game pretty easily. But after some 18 or so away from it, I start to understand how jkaen feels just about every game he plays
Anyway, the scientific expedition was quite the success! We found many tree-climbing fish! Unfortunately the crew got hungry on the return trip and ate the evidence

We need to do something else. I think novice is likely innocent and Rowain is too. Scum is NOT going to draw so much attention to themselves on day 1! Not only that people seem to want to mislynch novice just to get rid of the card... Who cares if the card is out there? We should be focused on lynching based on what we see.

Serdoa, you asked how I felt about the fool card situation. This is pretty much it. But I'll elaborate.

When I was Miller, I revealed night 1. I hadn't done any research into standard miller play, but it just seemed intuitive to reveal right away, BEFORE you were scanned. It doesnt mean much to claim it after your scanned, and you doubly screw the village over (your likely mislynch and revealing the seer) if you let that happen. Post game in the lurker thread I was told by a few I should have revealed sooner, maybe in my first post. So I don't see novice claiming it immediately as at all suspicious, he did exactly what I would do if I had the tarot card.

Now after ww14, I'm not going to give novice town status. Its certainly a scum move he is capable of making. But I wouldnt want to policy lynch novice if he hadn't claimed tarot, so I wouldnt do it now. I don't fear the tarot card too much, too many things would have to go scum's way for it to screw us.

As for Rowain, his attack of novice is bad for the town and wrongheaded. But thats pretty much in line with Rowain's standard village play.

OTOH, I am not happy at all with Tasunke's response to his votes. Unless I missed it, he hasn't even responded to the reason he is getting votes - TASUNKE, what was the purpose of the quicktopic comments (both in here and the pre-game thread)?? I don't see any pro-town reason for making them. In fact, your play today is so incredibly anti-town its ridiculous. Besides that, you first agree with Rowain and vote novice, then apparently decide Rowain is more lynchable, and vote him while voting novice for mayor???

Please address THAT. I am not interested in your thoughts on novice or Rowain, frankly, and certainly not what your item is. IF you are a villager, please do something useful and convince me of that .

And if you're a rat, please continue your current behavior so we can ice you.

xpost with all the zak votes (started this message hours ago). how is zak more suspicious than tasunke?

[MJW (ya that one)]

Not much happened.

2 random things before I react to uberfishes attack againt me.

1. I accept Zak's reason for him saying it is okay for Tasunke to get mod-killed. I also think his 'slip-up' attack against tasunke is okay.
2. I find it very strange that Zak is not talking about Ryan at all. Ryan has posted a bunch of bad stuff and for Zak not to say anything is very strange. Care to explain?

I don't feel that MJW vs Ryan is getting anywhere or helping me get a read on either player's alignment, and you two might as well stop arguing with each other.

by the way @ MJW: if you don't like either Tasunke or Novice, what's your take on Tasunke voting Novice? And why do you have a mayor vote on Tasunke?

I feel its going somewhere. Even if it does not do anything and just pisses us off it will show that not both of us are wolfs because it is very hard to get angry at your own teamate. Besides I think I am winning and Ryan's insincere play is showing though as Serdoa said.

I don't like Novice but that does not mean he is a wolf at all. Novice is playing his normal villager game which I don't like at all. (He has not done anything but the fool card saga.) So it really does not mean much that Tasunke is voting for him.

My mayor vote is on Tasunke because today might turn into a ROFL-stomp lych that does not tell us anything; as I said before. Because that is not happening at all my plan does not work at all; now that I think about it. I should make a normal mayor vote. Serdoa for agreeing with me and acting villagerious for now.

[Serdoa]

@Bigger - Good post

@Qgqqqq - Sorry if I aggravated you, but I wanted to call you out on it, so that you feel the need to post your thoughts before this day is over. I do like your post (apart from the Serdoa-part ).

@Lewwyn - Now, thats how I remember you. Not really much argument but certain about what you post.

I posted it earlier, but I still would like to pursue Ryan (and Tasunke also) as of now. I don't think acting on zak on D1 makes sense, at least not just because he is "not playing villagery enough". Imo he has played as to be expected on D1. And the argument that he has not pursued Ryan is kinda meh, why not vote for uberfish in this case, who tried to brush the whole thing off completely?

[Qgqqqqq]

Yeah its fine, just brought back bad memories .
I did not mean it as a "this is something I will coast on to the eod" - I was making a point (about my play last game) while pointing out my absence (especially as I was vocal last game).

I agree with Bigger about Tasunke - though it must be said that Tasunke often does stuff like that.

[Rowain]

A little lynch tally:

Rowain - 5 - uberfish novice Qgqqqqq pindicator Tasunke
Tasunke - 4 - MJW Bigger zakalwe Mattimeo
novice - 3 - Rowain Ryan Azza
zakalwe - 2 - Lewwyn waterbat
Ryan - 1 - Serdoa

Players not voting - 2 -: Merovech Selrahc

[Rowain]

Looks like the rats have come out:

So lets look at those voting for me.

novice: Nothing better than a nice little revenge vote . He himself states that he has only null reads except the fact that I prefer to lynch him over lynching a random villager without card.

uberfish: No reasons given. He immediatly voted for me when I voted novice. His reasoning so far:
a) No reason given except that he thinks that claiming the card was the right thing by novice
b) Really dislike how Rowain is trying to argue for a policy lynch on novice so my vote stays on him.
c) my opinion is that the reasoning "novice is the least bad mislynch if he's village because he has the card" is a convenient scum perspective to take since it allows people to push for Novice's lynch just by arguing about meta

In short it is Rowain thinks it is better to lynch the card and be rid of it than to lynch a random who might be normal villager. He completly disregards the possibility that novice is scum. A few games ago uberfish voted me as mayor because he was sure he could easily read me. Makes me wonder what changed.

Qg:

Anyone who's read Miller play before knows the generally accepted play is to claim on the first post (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller) in general that gives me a town lean on novice (by no means clearing him but the increased visibility he already has makes me think that he is a good mayor candidate).
Because of this I find rowain most suspicious.

Have you read your link?:

If you are a Miller, there are two schools of thought about optimal play:

The first school of thought is that you should claim immediately, ideally in your opening post. This ensures that the Cop will not waste an investigation on you. It becomes more likely that you will be lynched or shot by a Vigilante, however; otherwise, it would be too easy for Mafia to fakeclaim Miller as well.
The second school of thought is that you should not claim, but should play in such a way as to not get investigated; ideally, you would get yourself killed at Night. If investigated, however, you should expect to get lynched.

I have highlighted the interesting parts for you. Perhaps you can form your own opinion whom you want to lynch and why.

pindicator

I want to hear more from Rowain, especially in response to a lot of this novice talk that has gone on.

What more tdo you want to hear?? I have outlined (and I think with great detail) why I find novice a good lynch. You disagree with my reasoning? Fine then bring forth another target with reasons why he should be lynched but spare me that lazy approach you just did

Tasunke Will there come reasons in your posts/votes anytime soon?

[novice]

Sigh ... what I was saying is that there is only one reason a scum would say they had the fool card.

What would this reason be? if a different scum had the fool card. Therefore novice would have either no item or something else, would have been seered wolf, w/e, and could argue village. Meanwhile the wolf WITH the fool card could just play normally (or suspiciuosly) be seered, and be seen as village. If people think that wolf-novice has the card, then 2 seer proof wolves could be masquerading as village.

(this is why it would be dangerous)

But why would people think the card was destroyed?

Tasunke, please answer this.

[Qgqqqqq]

Yes I have.
And forming my OWN opinion that it would be unwise for evil to claim Miller in this setup.
I don't appreciate your "assistance" in helping me form my opinions either.

[Rowain]

Yes I have.
And forming my OWN opinion that it would be unwise for evil to claim Miller in this setup.
I don't appreciate your "assistance" in helping me form my opinions either.

Good then perhaps you can outline why it makes me scum.

And ere I forget. Rowain

[Qgqqqqq]

Elaborating on the above, yes I do understand that novice could be evil fakeclaimed , however given the circumstances plus the fact that he'll pass on the card mean that I think he is town lean.

Sure he could be evil, but put yourself in the position of a village-novice - how would YOU play?

I know I for one would've claimed post 1.
With that knowledge, why don't you form your own opinion as to who we should lynch .