WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Azza]

I don't have a preconception: if you continue posting like you have been lately, I'll happily eat my words.
Because anyone familiar with the RB metagame knows how crazy tasunke is, only a newcomer would be persuaded by that as the big scum tell you make it out to be.
Moreover Ryan became very involved in the novice discussion, and, I believe, emotionally caught in the arguments. Because of this he adapted his play around that situation, voting for mayor those who might save rowain (who had been on his side during that discussion) and attacking those involved in the Rowain lynch (for example: the vig-vengance post quoted above).
I therefore feel as though your Tasunke attack was "targeted" at Ryan in an attempt to get him as a champion for a taunke lynch.

I don't remember Tasunke's craziness appearing as malicious as this. That's what I consider to be the scum tell, rather than the fact that he's acting crazy.

And, while I'm obviously trying to convince people to agree with me, I haven't even considered trying to get specific people to agree with me. My attack on Tasunke is because I genuinely believe he is scum.

[pindicator]

Q, are you really accusing Azza of lurking? This is Azza, remember. He just doesn't post that much. It's like when I was all upset that nobody was pushing Sareln to post more -- well, not everybody is going to post at the same rates you want them to, and that doesn't mean that

Azza, I'm never on for deadlines -- I usually am at work, but today's a Saturday and instead I was out getting lunch with my roommate.

Vig or wolves mind shooting me? Dinner went shitty tonight. Or rather, the food was good - but the post dinner went shitty. Fucked that up, fucked up the lynch today, just off me -- that's how the village finally won last time anyway, with me gone.

[pindicator]

Q, are you really accusing Azza of lurking? This is Azza, remember. He just doesn't post that much. It's like when I was all upset that nobody was pushing Sareln to post more -- well, not everybody is going to post at the same rates you want them to, and that doesn't mean that

Whoops didn't finish that.

"...doesn't mean that they are scum or that they are village" was what I was going to go wtih.

[Qgqqqqq]

@Azza this is all how I see your play as stuff a evil would do - obviously you don't intend to manipulate than as village.
@pinsicator I'm not accusing him of lurking. I'm saying that he wasn't contributing to discussion/piggybacking on a train.
The lurking comment was my pointing put that despite what the post counts indicate, his contributions are still relatively minimal.
Agree that wb contributed less.

on that subject, where's the scrapper and is it updated (I saw a mention of it but now camt find it ...)

[Qgqqqqq]

BRick I believe there is a contradiction in the item rules.
It says you may not use two concurrently, but also says that if you have a passive you may use it and a activated one - under these circumstances, you must pass one on, so can you pass the passive?
And if so, do you enjoy its benefits that night?

[Serdoa]

I think I agree with Uberfish that we shouldn't take a vig shot, so we don't risk passing it on to scum.

If the gun is in village-hands, I'd rather have them shoot and pass it on than wait and die with the gun. But also I would neither vote who gets shot nor who gets the gun. Village has shown that it either is not very good or wolfs are already influencing them heavily. Either way, right now I trust that a villager alone will make a better decision than this village as a whole.

That was my starting point. We definitely need to think about safeguards.
Nobody should be vig shotting blind in this game.

One of the things though... the Vig shot represents a way to remove the fool card. We can vote for somebody to "lynch", then throw them the fool card on the same night. Then the item will be removed from the game with them without having to eat any mislynches.

Are you kidding me? That is EXACTLY what Rowain was proposing (minus the vig-shot) and why you lynched him. How would have been lynching novice today would have been any different? And you even state that we should throw someone the fool card on the same night, implictly already making clear that novice can't be the one we would vote to lynch. Nor do we fucking know if novice even has the card to being with. So, lets assume he says he threw it to x. X gets vig-shotted, but doesn't show the card. novice states "yeah, but I have the lockpicks now". Do we trust him on that?

Oh, and your last sentence is also funny. Why would we not have to eat a mislynch? Because if most of the village votes for someone it clearly is a wolf? We've seen with Rowain that this is not the case. Or maybe you meant that it would not be considered a mislynch, because at least we would kill the card? In that case I am back to my first point: Why not lynch novice today?

But most probably, what you meant is that if we would lynch novice due to the card it would be a mislynch. How do you know that I wonder?

yes, that post by Bigger raised my eyebrows - perhaps even into a full eye roll.

Why?

Azza: General lurkiness plus piggybacking on a wagon without getting involved in the discussion (of course I could also include Bigger and Merovech in this group )

Why don't you include them then? And btw, Azza got involved in the discussion. Please go and reread his posts. He delivered easily as much as uberfish did (not that that would be such a great feat, uberfish did nothing for the village on D1).

Mat has given a reason (he is afk), uberfish's posts are more useful, Bigger has made it a policy to lurk D1 (a policy I disagree with, but he's normally more active D2-3) and I had actually forgotten waterbat was playing

And because Bigger has made it a policy to lurk D1 we should let him slide by? I don't agree with that.

Tasunke has to be scum, IMO. He's been feeding disinformation, red herrings and is actively hindering efforts to catch scum whether it's deliberate on his part or not.

Yes Tasunke is useless today - he often is though, so I see this as no real scum tell. Annoying, but not scummy.

I would heavily agree with Azza. Yes, Tasunke is always crazy. But if you compare his posts with those of the last game when he was village (ww17 I think?) you will realize that there is a difference between him being crazy but actively helping and him being crazy and actively hindering the village. He is hindering the village right now.

Btw: I don't think Tasunke is often useless. When he plays village he can actually be an asset, he normally just doesn't live long enough for that. Well, and the players are often not listening to the important parts within all the crazy.

Selrahc's last minute vig-vote proposal gives me a slight village lean on him. It doesn't feel like a scum action, why bring up a proposal like that at the last minute if you're in a fight to save yourself. Having said that, I don't agree with the proposal.

I think you are wrong on one point here Azza: Selrahcs was not in a fight to save himself. He didn't have that many votes on him when he posted that and more importantly, it was already clear for the last few hours that he would not get lynched. None of those on Rowain would switch to him, that seemed obvious. uberfish and novice did a good job destroying my case on him without actually giving any arguments. But discuss long enough about parts of a case and you can be certain that most villagers will ignore it.

[Qgqqqqq]

Quick question (respond to rest soon) how do you find tasunke actively hindering the village?
sure he's distracted it, but the multiple QT names (for example) did that in '17 too.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't agree we should let biggers day 1.play slide either.
but we can hardly policy lynch him for it and at least be talks more days 2-4.

I didn't include them because ithey hadn't stood out toe like AAAS did - maybe it was wrong but I got the impression that he was just ignoring the discussion. ill reread. tomorrow though.


I don't like any individual using the gun. - I don't trust (most) of the village not to bring heir. personal vendetta into it

[novice]

Serdoa, the difference between Selrahc's suggestion and Rowain's suggestion is that Selrahc wanted to pick someone we think is scum, pass them the miller card, and then lynch them. Rowain skipped the "pick someone we think is scum" part.

[novice]

Sigh. I don't really get out Tasunke wiggled out of this, he is the clear best choice :/.

If Tasunke won't hang, then I'll go with Rowain .

So, Bigger, Rowain makes an excellent eyeroll here. What gives?

yes, that post by Bigger raised my eyebrows - perhaps even into a full eye roll.

Why?

Don't you find it odd that Bigger states he prefers Tasunke over Rowain, but doesn't take the opportunity to lynch Tasunke when it arises?