WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[waterbat]

If he (tasunke) actually had the gun and I counter claimed , he could successfully pass it. I would be the target of the night action ( steal or kill ). But the fact that the watcher could be scum also complicated things. If someone tried to steal the gun from me, the watcher might not reveal who did it.

I just found it highly amusing I, as village, was about to counter-fake-claim a village fake-claimer.

[waterbat]

I thought tasunke claimed gun after the night deadline. No way he'd go through with his gambit if he had been stolen from, but

Even so, he'd still have the lock pick and gloves on his person.

[Ryan]

I dont wanna go for any item holder until thier items are gone for example seer and vigi. Which will be tomorrow. Which means I want to focus on anyone we dont have a clear read on and Who I suspect.

[Serdoa]

Your initial post:

I was going to also lie and counterclaim the gun against tasunke! Because I thought he was lying and I could protect the gun owner. If he was telling the truth, I could protect him from night kill. I couldn't work out to protect him and I both from lynch though.

Then you explain first:

@ Serdoa. I stated I couldn't work out how to protect him from the lynch if he wasn't actually lying. I stated that in the post.

I was trying to find an optimal play that would protect him if a) he had the gun innocent or b) he didn't have the gun innocent. If he was guilty and telling the truth about the gun, I wasnt worried about the consequences. If he was guilty and lying, same thing.

If you believe he says the truth, why is there a need for some play to protect him from the lynch? Just state your opinion. If enough villagers agree he won't get lynched. And again, how would your play protect him if he was innocent, no matter the gun-status? You counter-claim him, calling him a liar. We either lynch him or you. That is not what I would call protection.

If he (tasunke) actually had the gun and I counter claimed , he could successfully pass it. I would be the target of the night action ( steal or kill ). But the fact that the watcher could be scum also complicated things. If someone tried to steal the gun from me, the watcher might not reveal who did it.

And again, if he had the gun and you counter-claimed what happens is that one gets lynched, one gets night-killed. It doesn't matter who of you gets what fate, you are both dead and the gun is out of the game. Even worse, if we lynch Tasunke and he does have indeed the gun than we lynch you as well.

All in all, what you claim here is a terrible, terrible idea and I don't believe you one second. I am at this point very certain that you believed that this claim would get you village-cred and simply made it in a hurry. A villager who really had planned this play would have realized much earlier that it is EXTREMELY dumb. But a wolf? Yeah, I can see how you haven't really thought enough about it.

waterbat

[Ryan]

People finally voting waterbat. Thanks MJW for getting rid of Azza vs tas talk..

[waterbat]

We have the following items in play, and no more. I speculated a bit on which team has which items. Should we consider a mass claim? I guess not, to protect our watcher?

Ouija Board (Seer) - village
Crowbar (Item Seer) - scum -
Black Cloak (Watcher) - village -
Hold-Out Pistol (Vigilante) - village -
Gas Can (Bomb) - scum -
Lockpick & Gloves (Thief) - village? - Azza
Fool Tarot Card (Miller) - village - novice/serdoa
Fake Wooden Arm (Doublevote) - village -
Parchment & Disappearing Ink (Tablet) - Scum -
Padlock & Key (Jailer) - Scum - Bigger
Silk Bulletproof Vest (1-Shot Bulletproof) - Village - Serdoa
TommyGun (Day Vig) - Village - MJW
No item (5) - 5 villagers - Rowain, Tasunke,

Disagree with 3:

Gas can: only protects against night kills. So it's supposed to be a counter to the hold out gun? I think it's more likely it starts in village.

Lock pick and gloves: I'd put scum? Instead of village. As I think the scum getting a hold of the gun or vest would be good reason to start this on the scum side of the game.

Fake wooden arm. I always felt double votes should be scum tools, but we've rarely had that here I guess. I think this is a toss-up item.

I'd rather not mass claim yet as the gun and watcher and bomb are still undercover. Assuming 3 more scu
-each of those tools could net us a sweep.

[waterbat]

@serdoa: I did t do it because I couldn't work out how to not get one of us lynched.

I don't thi I coming out and saying 'I was going to lie to the village' is going to get me village cred.

[uberfish]

I really wish people would stop fake claiming as village. Tasunke, this means you. Waterbat's plan to fake claim is also extremely silly since if we were going to lynch Tasunke for lying we'd lynch Waterbat too once he was revealed to be lying...

Azza and MJW are *not* confirmed village. If they're scum they had an easy opportunity here to justify the use of their item in a way that killed a villager. I agree they probably aren't the top suspects right now either.

interestingly there was no movement against Tasunke and a few votes on others until I made my case and Q, azza and waterbat joined the wagon. Now I've tended to skim over Q's posts this game because of the excessive amounts of posting and I need to look closer later, but intuition tells me that this is a good spot for scum to jump on. (admittedly, I'm 1 for 3 on my main suspects so far so I might be off.) As for waterbat, I know I said to Serdoa earlier that I don't usually go for phrasing slips but the use of the word "framing up" reads bad to me here.

Willing to vote Tasunke
I buy into uber's framing up of the bigger-Tasunke interaction.

The tone just reads to me as if he wanted to blame me for a Tasunke lynch at this point. Although azza's thief claim proceeded to take over as the core of the claim against tasunke, and that thread might have been lost...

I don't like the fact that Merovech couldn't come up with a better explanation of why he is voting me than "Uberfish's play is scummy" and feel like I'm just being accused for having been wrong about Rowain and Tasunke. so he's on the suspicious list too.

No clue yet on selrahc; meta/strategy arguments are definitely his comfort zone as either alignment.

I'll try and look into Q in more detail tonight (which I am not particularly looking forward to delving through 100+ posts of his.)

waterbat's a decent lynch. Really want more detail from Merovech on his stances though because this voteparking on me without a real case is at best anti-town.

[Ryan]

@uberfish What do you think about Selrahc escaping from answering a lot of questions or arguments vs him?

[zakalwe]

WTF Tasunke, and WTF Waterbat, if you really are innocent and were planning to do something similar. You really have a knack for coming across as an inept villager when you're playing as scum, though. So maybe this is more of the same.

Waterbat

Also MJW, you should have been more patient. I was enjoying the slower pace, anyway.