WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Mattimeo]

Novice:

I'd left before he made his initial 'I have something good, will pass it tonight', had ~400 posts to catch up on when I got back, and skimmed through them without taking in too much.

The initial claim, by itself, is fairly weak; something that should be pressed, and tested. His actual arguments were also fairly poor.
He made no attempt to elaborate further on his claim for the rest fo the day, either. The first real hint at what he was claiming came 3 hours after night started, with:

Fairly. Certain I won't get vig killed

But simply saying that might get me night killed by ze wolves :X


Anyways, totally unrelated, can we agree on either azza or water at to get shot tonight?

So, no real problems with the day 1 train on him, given the claim was completely vague and his arguments were pretty terrible.
The narrowing down of the possible items he could have during the night is the main thing that made the difference in my attitude towards his lynch for the start of day 2.

[novice]

Fair enough, Mattimeo.

Merovech

[waterbat]

Wow. Very good posts here while I was sleeping.

@Zak: that post by mero, after you pointed it out, does seem like a scum post.

@lewwyn: you are 100% correct about my scumhunting abilities. The thing is : a) I'm always going to be a lynchbait target. b) I'm always going to install foot in mouth when trying to scum hunt and c) I'm never going to be night killed. So, its not difficult to see why I would try some desperate scheme to get night killed.

@serdoa, yes I reasoned already that it must be you or novice that gets the can. also know that either way its a small town victory (assuming you and novice aren't taking us for a ride). Either confirmed town gets the item or I get cleared. I was OK with either result, but didn't necessarily want to spell out that in the thread for the scum rt o see. I prefer that village gets the item from a competitive standpoint, but for my sanity, I prefer it dying with the victim.

Interestingly, this reminds me of discussions about cryptography or software security development. If you put your ideas out in public, even if the black hats can see them, your end product is often much the better for it. I'll try to do this more, but its based when doing so in the past has gotten me so much heat.

Re: selrahc. I also agree its the 'meta-only' part that prompted my vote. I am similarly minded and prefer that side of the game as well (I'm shit at the other parts), but isn't it a puzzle to figure out mjw and azza from their actions? No comment at all seems out of place.

XPosting with Qgqqqqq. Agreed on Ryan. A very hard read, but also not particularly dangerous ATM. He pushed me so hard I wanted to lynch him and have him flip scum so people would get off my back. Was trying to no it let that hope color my impression of him.

Will be busy today.

[Azza]

Can't remember if I've said this, but what the fuck Tasunke. Seriously, what the fuck.


Ok, now that I've gotten that out of my system, Selrahc needs to let us know who he thinks is suspicious. I don't think I've seen a single post from him yet that looks at who he thinks is suspicious.

[Serdoa]

@serdoa, yes I reasoned already that it must be you or novice that gets the can. also know that either way its a small town victory (assuming you and novice aren't taking us for a ride). Either confirmed town gets the item or I get cleared. I was OK with either result, but didn't necessarily want to spell out that in the thread for the scum rt o see. I prefer that village gets the item from a competitive standpoint, but for my sanity, I prefer it dying with the victim.

As long as scum can't influence I believe it is the best approach to spell out such things. You should of course never give away something they don't know (like revealing who our seer is) but if you realize something that is fact due to the rules, expect them to have figured it out as well. And that means that not telling it everyone is just hurting the village. For example, if zak hadn't told me about the rules, I might have still asked to lynch you. But by telling how the rules actually will work in regards to your gas can, he made certain that we all understand that letting you live for today is the better option for the village.

[novice]

Selrahc needs to let us know who he thinks is suspicious. I don't think I've seen a single post from him yet that looks at who he thinks is suspicious.

Not on day 2, no, if that's what you meant. He did argue relatively actively for lynching Rowain on day 1. I think maybe this was his opening statement in that case:

There are two wagons at the moment.

Rowain: Bizarre insistence that the card is the thing we should be focusing all our energies on, and that the only thing to do is to lynch the holder.

Tasunke: Some odd jokes. A possible wolf slip, or possible confused statement.

Hmm.
Rowain.

Tasunke's comments seem like they are ill-considered. But that isn't out of character. There could be malevolence, but I think there probably isn't. Rowain's actions though, I can see something darker underneath.

I disagree with his reaction against the card. If the card is really such a problem for the village, it can easily be disposed of by dumping it onto someone who is likely to be lynched or nightkilled, without killing Novice. The issue is nowhere near as binary as he is making it out to be.

But my issue is really whether or not *he* believes what he is saying. I'm not so sure he does. Now I'm thinking in particular of some statements Rowain has made in past games about confirmed villagers as a wolf. In the FFH game, he was quite annoyed that as a wolf his kills were more or less proscribed into killing confirmed villagers day after day, and that the game was basically lost by that. So as a wolf, I think he would be both much more against the idea of anybody being put into the village camp, and more willing than most wolves to sacrifice himself to stop such a thing. From his wolfish perspective, letting an actual villager be perceived widely as a villager locks in a kill, and lessens the wolf power to influence. By attacking so strongly, the desired effect is to cast a pallor of suspicion over Novice even if he doesn't manage to secure the lynch. The only thing that could go wrong would be his own lynch in reaction... but starting from such a position might well be unpalatable to him as a wolf.

It's not a sure thing, but day 1 never is. I think I could fairly see Rowain acting like he has done as a wolf.

I agree that Selrahc is looking lynchable at the moment.

[novice]

But by telling how the rules actually will work in regards to your gas can, he made certain that we all understand that letting you live for today is the better option for the village.

If you can, you should announce at dawn (23:00)* who you're passing the can to. As insurance in case BRick doesn't mention the gas can in his writeup. I can see him not doing that and simply notifying you that the gas can was destroyed.

Btw, I had to prompt BRick myself for confirmation that the Fool card had been successfully passed to Serdoa.

*We really should consider banning such "twilight" posts for future games. Or maybe just ban all posting at night.

[novice]

It might be unclear, but the above was addressed at Waterbat, of course.

[Serdoa]

But by telling how the rules actually will work in regards to your gas can, he made certain that we all understand that letting you live for today is the better option for the village.

If you can, you should announce at dawn (23:00)* who you're passing the can to. As insurance in case BRick doesn't mention the gas can in his writeup. I can see him not doing that and simply notifying you that the gas can was destroyed.

Btw, I had to prompt BRick myself for confirmation that the Fool card had been successfully passed to Serdoa.

*We really should consider banning such "twilight" posts for future games. Or maybe just ban all posting at night.

Doesn't help novice. If BRick is not mentioning that the item was destroyed with the target than waterbat could as well be scum who posts at 2300 that he gives the gas can to novice. Novice dies, no mention of the gas can. Was it passed and destroyed? Not passed? We do not know.

And you are right that BRick could do either way (I personally think he should tell it, as by his ruling the item dies with the player it was passed to and he wrote in the rules that he will give information about the items that got destroyed with a players death). We will see, but in any case, I don't think a twilight post is necessary.

[novice]

Doesn't help novice. If BRick is not mentioning that the item was destroyed with the target than waterbat could as well be scum who posts at 2300 that he gives the gas can to novice. Novice dies, no mention of the gas can. Was it passed and destroyed? Not passed? We do not know.

And you are right that BRick could do either way (I personally think he should tell it, as by his ruling the item dies with the player it was passed to and he wrote in the rules that he will give information about the items that got destroyed with a players death). We will see, but in any case, I don't think a twilight post is necessary.

Duh, you're right of course. Never mind me. No point in a twilight post then.