WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[MJW (ya that one)]

Zak, a PM from Brick said the item in the box was random. He had to come up with the item and PM twice. So you cannot judge weather or not that item is scummy 'cause its random.

I killed Tasunke because there was no way he was going to live. It was obvious that ether Tasunke or Azza would have to hang because one of them was lying. I felt that there was no way that Tasunke could lose to Azza. The bad things that Azza has done where lurking and having a slightly scummy item. So I gave the town an extra lych with enough time to talk about it. If I were wolf I would wait to try and draw out the true vig (if tasunke was not it) and give less time from the town to talk about the lych. And if Azza somehow got himself lyched it would have been even worse for the village. (Unless both Azza and I are both scum but that seems unlikely for reasons waterbat pointed out.)

Basically, Tasunke was not going to get a night-action no matter what. So, it really did not matter what Tasunke had/his alighment. I just gave the town an extra lych.

If I had the power I would consider lyching waterbat despite his gas-can. Saying when you were planning to fake-claim vig like that is not acceptable. But I don't so I have to switch. I like waterbat a little more for defending me. Even though he changed his mind in two seconds.

I'll just join Serdoa's dogpile on Selrahc. With such poor play by everyone I don't know what to think. And I trust Serdoa a bit to make the right choice and he is a confrimed villager. Killing Selrahc will also tell us exactly what happened on day 1.

I still don't like Ryan or Azza But Selrahc still beats them and waterbat because he is not scum-hunting like his usual villager self.

[Ryan]

At the people saying I'm only setting claims on lurking . I am sorry but I disagree . My claims on Novice day 1 matched Rowains that its better to remove the fool card + a potential lynch .

Selrhac I postedy reasons that he is not contributing to the discussion we have but does a rando meta post . I said he is being hypocritical the way he changes his idea about vigilante shot and he did change them once at start then before the day 1 dead line and then after I called him on it . I wrote all of these several times and yes lurking was included vs him but it wasn't the basis of the entire argument .

Waterbat my arguments against him were agreed on by everyone or a majority. He isn't a village and he was prob THE lynch until we decided to keep him just because we needed the gas can since there is no other form of protecting . I called him a liar due to one post that he explained was merging and that he didn't mean it the way it was written. He wasn't contributing to the discussion but providing sumarries of what was being said. He was reacting angrily and rudely . He also claimed that i was wrong and i corrected him based on quotes he said and i said. That's the basis of my arguments vs him . I did not state anything massively incorrectly and kept holding on to it .

I won't let people undermine my arguments saying that it is incorrect *mat* that it was solely based on lurking *q and waterbat* when they aren't . If you are considering that when I wrote that we should focus on the people not talking and leave the item discussions to day 3 then I am sorry you ARE wrong . Waterbat you would have still kept my vote if you hadn't claimed gas can where I was the first to say the item is important and If I follow my list of people in how much I feel they are and said it was Selrahc . Which was not influenced by anyone . Also I find it funny that Matt is mentioning me because I said we shouldn't ignore him and focus on people we don't have a read on .


On a side note , you guys advised to form my own ideas and not just follow people blindly which I have done and now you are judging me for it.

[waterbat]

I've often thought posting at night should be disallowed and posted such a few times in recent games. The only reservation is the recent record of the village is quite poor. Taking away a useful village tool would be rough

[Ryan]

And before someone claim I am copying or whatever read my posts I haven't changed a single claim I said vs Selrhac since night 1 my vote vs him was the first vote today. And my claims are matching what everyone is saying that he avoids discussion . And I will respond like this if of anyone's claim is I'm a nub , he's wrong , he only cares about lurking . Because that is neither right or fair .

[zakalwe]

Zak, a PM from Brick said the item in the box was random. He had to come up with the item and PM twice. So you cannot judge weather or not that item is scummy 'cause its random.

Ok, I only have your word for that, though. What do you mean by having to come up with it twice?

Here's the public item description:

"Sealed Box (???) - This crate was found in the corner, and contains an unknown item. The box may be opened as a night action, and when it is opened, will contain either an additional item from the list above, or a item not listed publicly."

Nothing there says it's random. When did you ask Brick about this?

[MJW (ya that one)]

He gave 2 pms saying.

PM 1. You opened the box. Please wait for your item.
PM 2. You item is tommy gun.

This only makes sense if he has to come up with the item. ie the item is random. I did not ask Brick about this he gave me those PMs no prompting.

[Serdoa]

I killed Tasunke because there was no way he was going to live. It was obvious that ether Tasunke or Azza would have to hang because one of them was lying. I felt that there was no way that Tasunke could lose to Azza. The bad things that Azza has done where lurking and having a slightly scummy item. So I gave the town an extra lych with enough time to talk about it. If I were wolf I would wait to try and draw out the true vig (if tasunke was not it) and give less time from the town to talk about the lych. And if Azza somehow got himself lyched it would have been even worse for the village. (Unless both Azza and I are both scum but that seems unlikely for reasons waterbat pointed out.)

Basically, Tasunke was not going to get a night-action no matter what. So, it really did not matter what Tasunke had/his alighment. I just gave the town an extra lych.

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I still don't like Ryan or Azza But Selrahc still beats them and waterbat because he is not scum-hunting like his usual villager self.

1) Why would it have been even worse for the village if Azza somehow got himself lynched? Do you know for certain that Azza is village? Only a wolf would know that (or the seer but that can't be you)
2) Why have you killed Tasunke despite the chance that he is really our vig? I can't read in all your text an explanation for that. You simply state that he wouldn't have gotten another night-action anyhow. Thats true, but that would still not tell you if he is scum or not. Killing him was not providing us with another lynch, it was providing the scum another night-kill. If he was our vig, at least they would have had to kill him in the night. AND we would have still the shot from your gun. There was simply no good reason to shoot at this point.
3) Why do you kill Tasunke when you yourself state that you had a scum-lean on Azza? Why not Azza instead? Even now you mention Azza as one of your suspects. If you just wanted to end this discussion, shoot Azza. His item is worth less to us if we lose it. We know if Tasunke says the truth as well and either way, Tasunke dies in the night by the scum in any case if he himself is not scum.

In gist, there is no reason whatsoever given in your post why you shot Tasunke. It is not even true that we would have lynched either of the two, as I (and I think others) pointed out BEFORE you shot, it would have been fine to let them both live till D3 and see then if another vig shows up. If yes we lynch Tasunke, if no we lynch Azza. Easy and no reason to lynch either of them on D2. Yes, it would have had the same outcome, but you couldn't know that. As a villager you made a very bad decision. But reading your last post, I doubt you are a villager and thought about this like a villager would have:

MJW

[zakalwe]

Ok, MJW, that sounds a bit swingy, but I guess it could be true. Scum could still start with the sealed box, though.

Why did you think Azza's item was slightly scummy?

[Ryan]

I don't think that's enough Serdoa . You need him to respond to all of that first . Also why did you jump so suddenly from Serlahc to MJW ?

[MJW (ya that one)]

Ok, MJW, that sounds a bit swingy, but I guess it could be true. Scum could still start with the sealed box, though.

Why did you think Azza's item was slightly scummy?

Most of the items on that list are only useful to village. So it would be hard to use for a villager effectively as those only a couple of items to steal that can belong to the mafia. If the village steals from village nothing really happens asides from confusion. Which is very likely. But scum can always just try steal from village--trading their okay item from something great like the fool card or the hold-out pistol.

It's only slightly scummy and that's why Azza could not lose to Tasunke's antics.