The one for contact was worthwhile, the rest are not. Polls should be infrequent and only when there's a clear divide on the opinion. The contact poll is literally 9-9 right now. It's fairly high impact with no consensus, so a poll is worthwhile.
Stuff like the attack (where the consensus on what to do is really obvious) and a random axe move are not significant.
edit: and they are "tiresome" in that they clutter the forum
Crossposting to diplo thread. Do we even have a diplo message for Civplayers?
I'd like everyone to focus on these guys, not the barb city that CFC probably hasn't even noticed. If we can't wrangle up a diplo message immediately after we make contact, then let's not make contact yet.
(January 7th, 2013, 16:51)Nicolae Carpathia Wrote: Crossposting to diplo thread. Do we even have a diplo message for Civplayers?
"Hi, we come in peace. Who have you met? What's your impression of ______ that you've met? The German team is annoying right? Hugs and kisses, write back soon plzthx."
Basically that in nice, paragraph form - it's just a greeting message. I wouldn't worry about that part or consider it a major factor in deciding what we should do.
(January 7th, 2013, 07:49)SevenSpirits Wrote: Let's see, kjn's idea involves waiting a turn to get about +0.6% chance to win the battle. If we lose the axe we have to spend 35h to replace it and let's say 5t to move the new one over there, generously +1 turn because it builds an extra warrior in the meantime. So 0.6% of 6t, that is 0.036 barb city turns. 35h * 0.6%, that's 0.2 hammers. 1h is made up in about 0.25 turns of that city's operation, so 0.2h are worth about 0.05 barb city turns. Total expected value gained by the extra odds is 0.086 turns of operation of the barb city, which is nothing in relation to the 1 lost barb city turn if we, well, delay capturing it by a turn.
So in order for the math to come out in favor of waiting a turn, we have to think there is a 91% chance the barb city will not grow by the time we can capture it at the earliest. We knew the barb city was there t81. Since it is working the 3f tile it should grow 8t after being born. At worst it will have grown t89. At best rate we would be able to conquer it t87. AFAICT the first tracking of barb pop increases in the C&D thread was t80, and none happened t81. Since it's t85, the earliest it could have been born was t78; once the turn rolls and we have to make the decision if the city hasn't grown yet, the earliest will be t79.
So we know (rather, will know next turn, if the city doesn't grow yet) with fairly high probability that the barb city was born either t79 or t80. If we can confirm that it was not born t79, then sure, waiting a turn for +0.6% odds seems good. If we just don't have the info, I think the odds it was born t79 rather than t80 are higher than 10%. So on balance we'll be better off attacking rather than waiting.
Alright chumps lets do this... LEEEEEROOOYY JEENNNNKIIIIIINNSSSS!
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
(January 7th, 2013, 16:47)scooter Wrote: The one for contact was worthwhile, the rest are not. Polls should be infrequent and only when there's a clear divide on the opinion. The contact poll is literally 9-9 right now. It's fairly high impact with no consensus, so a poll is worthwhile.
Stuff like the attack (where the consensus on what to do is really obvious) and a random axe move are not significant.
And that's the point. Your "really obvious consensus" might not be so obvious to others, as the discussion is spread over 100 posts. Sullla's gut feeling was to promote and attack. And he made clear that he sometimes has problems finding what the clear team consensus is on a decision (a valid point) and goes with his gut feeling. The idea with the polls was to mainly address the issue of making the team consensus clear and obvious.
And a random axe (unit) move might not be significant to you, but others care about checking the movement options for each unit and trying to optimize them. Having those suggestions then not finding their way into the actual turn play, is frustrating and sparked the recent discussion of how to make these "plain better moves" more obvious to the turn player.
(January 7th, 2013, 16:47)scooter Wrote: edit: and they are "tiresome" in that they clutter the forum
I personally can live with a few more threads (polls) in the forum without getting tired, if they help the team performance. Especially since they will drop to the bottom very quickly or can even be deleted or stowed away after being closed. But I guess this comes down to individual taste.
mh
"You have been struck down!" - Tales of Dwarf Fortress
---
"moby_harmless seeks thee not. It is thou, thou, that madly seekest him!"
I agree with pulling back the woodsman axe to heal in our borders.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Seriously, let's not have the polls. As scooter said, the only thing worthy of a poll would be the decision to contact or not contact CivPlayers. I am emphatically *NOT* reading five different threads will polls on every turn. That's significantly worse than the situation we have had going thus far. I also think it's a poor idea to make all decisions via team polling. Not everyone is following the game all that closely, and I'll state openly right now that I don't feel obligated to follow the results of every single vote. This is only going to end poorly, from an organizational and team dynamics standpoint.
It's just not a good idea. Let's please avoid these polling threads in the future unless it's something really important.
(January 8th, 2013, 08:17)Sullla Wrote: Seriously, let's not have the polls. As scooter said, the only thing worthy of a poll would be the decision to contact or not contact CivPlayers. I am emphatically *NOT* reading five different threads will polls on every turn. That's significantly worse than the situation we have had going thus far. I also think it's a poor idea to make all decisions via team polling. Not everyone is following the game all that closely, and I'll state openly right now that I don't feel obligated to follow the results of every single vote. This is only going to end poorly, from an organizational and team dynamics standpoint.
It's just not a good idea. Let's please avoid these polling threads in the future unless it's something really important.
maybe we should take a poll to decide if we want to do more polls?
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
(January 8th, 2013, 08:19)Bigger Wrote: maybe we should take a poll to decide if we want to do more polls?
Yo dawg, I heard you liked polls. Here's a poll for your poll so you can poll while you poll.
@Sullla, you're doing a good job overall. Just keep steering the ship, our process is working very well thanks to your guidance of the discussion and the hard work of our other invested players. Good job everyone. As for the polls....well, dictators (patrician Roman or otherwise) usually don't feel tied down by the results of elections anyway. But I think the polls are a bit much, they do clutter the forum view for what that's worth.
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
(January 8th, 2013, 08:19)Bigger Wrote: maybe we should take a poll to decide if we want to do more polls?
Yo dawg, I heard you liked polls. Here's a poll for your poll so you can poll while you poll.
@Sullla, you're doing a good job overall. Just keep steering the ship, our process is working very well thanks to your guidance of the discussion and the hard work of our other invested players. Good job everyone. As for the polls....well, dictators (patrician Roman or otherwise) usually don't feel tied down by the results of elections anyway. But I think the polls are a bit much, they do clutter the forum view for what that's worth.
eh, neither do wise and just kings. Popular decisions aren't always the right one (some might argue that they are rarely the right one).
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
As for the polls....well, dictators (patrician Roman or otherwise) usually don't feel tied down by the results of elections anyway. But I think the polls are a bit much, they do clutter the forum view for what that's worth.