(January 8th, 2013, 00:24)Cheater Hater Wrote: Things seem fine with our expansion plans, though we need to make sure we can support this expansion--currency will help with this, but that island city's going to cost more--are vassal states on? (aka colonial maintenance) What else is going on that Galley--an exploring warrior first round, then quickly following up with an archer along with possibly another warrior?
I think we need a missionary first, followed by a warrior and worker. Fog gazing makes me think it isn't a big island so will probably only fit two cities and doesn't need a lot of scouting. For the costs I think we want code of laws soon to get courthouses up, but overseas trade will boost our trade route income so I think this city will cover it's own costs - I could be wrong!
(January 8th, 2013, 00:24)Cheater Hater Wrote: I'm fine with a whip to speed up the galley, though we'll want to grow DD once we get the Colossus going--we can then move the naval stuff to the copper city, or possibly the island city if it's good enough.
Agreed
(January 8th, 2013, 00:24)Cheater Hater Wrote: When do you want to put a city on the peninsula itself? (preferably the middle of the three c?'s, the one I added) It's a good spot, but we aren't in a real rush to settle it.
With your suggestion we can also put a city on the little island for more overseas trade routes, but we've already got Moai in DD so I don't know how good that city will be. With mine we get two mainland cities with better production and we get more coast to work to the east, I'm not sure which I prefer yet. I guess we'll have to think about it...
(January 8th, 2013, 00:24)Cheater Hater Wrote: I'm fine with the slight emphasis on Trolls, at least until we re-up the NAP--when do we want to restart negotiations for that? After we finish settling the peninsula?
Great, I think maybe when t100 comes?
(January 8th, 2013, 00:24)Cheater Hater Wrote: We could ask another team for a short-term loan to get Currency in 3 turns, or modify tiles if it's really close. After we get Currency, where are Markets going? (besides the obvious OR)
I don't think it'll be close, but the loan is an interesting idea - TEAM are the only ones who can trade money at the moment and they haven't been particularly talkative...
Hadn't thought about markets. Where do you think we need them?
Feeling a bit under the weather so I can't guarentee a coherent report...
Exploring TEAM lands. These are the guys who we'll need support from if we're going to stop Trolls running away with things. That's still a little way away though.
After Currency I'm inclined towards Code of Laws, courthouses in the most important places will save us around 10g a turn. Calander will give us +2 happy, but with Hereditary Rule the happy cap hasn't been a problem and without marble MOM seems unlikely. Iron Working->compass->Optics gets us whale and puts us on course for circumnavigation bonus which is huge for Vikings. While Civil Service + Machinery gets us Berzerkers and Bureau capital... What do you think?
In the east we need to think about these two cities after City 9 and Island City, I think the one between BOG and Halberd can wait. I'd go for City 11 first, but then I'd think about settling City 12 1W to share the pig - I'm not sure we're ever going to want Occam to stop growing though, so maybe the original site on the hill is still better.
The island does only look big enough to fit two cities at the moment, the second one will be rubbish, so perhaps just one. If it's an island chain we'll want to send the galley on exploring.
Power
Right, we don't want to be building many more units - the current level should be enough to discourage aggression, even if most of it is just MP warriors.
Demos - Yosarian, I don't think we're expecting C&D any more at this point in the game, but it'd be good to get your input on the other stuff...
I wish TEAM had some sort of diplo going, so we knew if we should be going into their territory (and to discuss the loan)
Code of Laws seems like the obvious next tech, mainly since we need stuff to build during our infrastructure push while we're at the top of the power standings--we'll build another worker or two somewhere, continue on the naval push, but mainly build courthouses, libraries, and markets.
My idea is to go Code of Laws->Civil Service->Machinery->Iron Working->Compass->Optics, but I don't like going on such a long tangent just for Caravels and Whales--remember that we need Machinery for Optics, and we shouldn't need Berserkers for a while yet (unless you want to go conquering long-term--who would be your target?). Other than that, you already mentioned why Calendar isn't that important (MoM is the main thing going for it since we have HR already), and the only other option I can think of would be Aesthetics->Literature for the Epics and Great Library, but that feels like going too far out of our way--if we're that bored we probably should go to war
Regarding your cities in the east, I understand why City 12 is okay, but I don't understand why you like City 11 at all--it'll be swamped by Trolls and it doesn't even claim a new food source (if you assume the corn is claimed by City 12)
I didn't realize the island was so small--hopefully it's a good chain
(January 8th, 2013, 12:01)Cheater Hater Wrote: I wish TEAM had some sort of diplo going, so we knew if we should be going into their territory (and to discuss the loan)
They wouldn't have offered open borders if not - I hope.
(January 8th, 2013, 12:01)Cheater Hater Wrote: Code of Laws seems like the obvious next tech, mainly since we need stuff to build during our infrastructure push while we're at the top of the power standings--we'll build another worker or two somewhere, continue on the naval push, but mainly build courthouses, libraries, and markets.
Sounds like a plan
(January 8th, 2013, 12:01)Cheater Hater Wrote: My idea is to go Code of Laws->Civil Service->Machinery->Iron Working->Compass->Optics, but I don't like going on such a long tangent just for Caravels and Whales--remember that we need Machinery for Optics, and we shouldn't need Berserkers for a while yet (unless you want to go conquering long-term--who would be your target?). Other than that, you already mentioned why Calendar isn't that important (MoM is the main thing going for it since we have HR already), and the only other option I can think of would be Aesthetics->Literature for the Epics and Great Library, but that feels like going too far out of our way--if we're that bored we probably should go to war
I'd like to slot Polytheism and Monotheism in too so we can revolt to Organised Religion at the same time as Bureaucracy and Caste System. Although that'll take an extra turn of anarchy, so maybe we can leave it until later.
I think my main target for a war would be M3's Great Lighthouse city. If we could keep it. Trolls won't have any coastal cities that would really hurt to burn down and the other two teams are a bit far away to be a threat or a target... I'd like to do some warring, but it's not really looking promising.
(January 8th, 2013, 12:01)Cheater Hater Wrote: Regarding your cities in the east, I understand why City 12 is okay, but I don't understand why you like City 11 at all--it'll be swamped by Trolls and it doesn't even claim a new food source (if you assume the corn is claimed by City 12)
Yeah it is rubbish, but it'll deny Trolls some land. It should push back the Troll culture in about 15 turns after settling, but will still be vulnerable to 2-movers. Should we leave that area for someone else to settle?
Probably cottages in Foil-it'll get 8 hammers per turn just from the horse, wheat, and city center tiles.
I forget, do we already have a source of marble? If not, City 11 could be built two tiles further north, if the diplo allows it.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Speaking of war, if we do choose to invade someone, I would prioritize that sexy Great Lighthouse.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Organized Religion doesn't seem like a good plan to me, mainly since it takes two extra turns of anarchy (we still don't have religion yet, and don't particularly need the happiness quite yet) and by the time we slot them in, we'll have built most of our architecture. Admittedly, I underrate Organized Religion consistently, so I may not be the best source for this :/
We'll see what happens with city 11--it's not horrible, but hopefully we'll find more island cities
Hooray for having a good capital
If you want to cottage Foil, shouldn't you be building a library there?
Hooray for slow grows!
Yeah, Marble would be a reason to found a city, but I'm not sure how the diplo's going (or we could just attack M3 and not worry about the diplo )
Actually putting city 11 2n will be fine with trolls, it becomes far more useful too. Only trouble is the culture swamping. I guess a library and some spears will help with that.
I forgot we don't have a religion yet, ah well, let's save or for later...
Sorry I haven't been participating much, RL has gotten very busy. I'm following along, though, and again I really appreciate the detailed reports.
It looks like borders are starting to fill in, and we'll have to look at war if we want to continue expanding. We need to figure out now if we want to stay close with M3 and go after the Trolls, or vice versa. Is it more important to go after the great lighthouse, or keep the score leaders on their toes? If we try to do both, we're likely to get burned. Either way, we probably want to keep close relations with the Pirates and TEAM (have we tried contacting them again recently?)
Regarding the earlier question of pillaging our copper, improvements always get pillaged before roads, as you can never pillage roads inside your own borders. Luckily, it seems that Occam can build archers fast enough for mp happiness as it grows, so we don't need the warriors.
. Trolls won't have any coastal cities that would really hurt to burn down and the other two teams are a bit far away to be a threat or a target... I'd like to do some warring, but it's not really looking promising. 
