WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Ryan]

MJW for what Serdoa wrote and my own.

[Ryan]

MJW for what Serdoa wrote and my own.

MJW[/color], Edit : my own reasons

[pindicator]

MJW for what Serdoa wrote and my own.

MJW[/color], Edit : my own reasons

Which are...?

I thought you were big on Selrahc. I like Selrahc as the lynch more than MJW because MJW has contributed more. I also agree with the use of shooting Tasunke although i hadnt considered the point Serdoa made about just beimg patient until day 3. I figured if Azza was lying then someone else would claim the picks.

As for Zak, i didnt like his reaction when i mentioned him day 1. Re-reading day 1 i dont like how everything he says is confined to novice and tasunke- i think village zak wouldnt want to get stuck into just looking at two people day 1. And i dont like how he thinks wayerbat is scummy but we shouldnt lynch him. Last time i saw zak make an argument like that he was scum.

Zak

[uberfish]

Serdoa you're right in your last post about the *previous* gun holder claiming, and starting to convince me. We've just discussed why Tasunke had to be lying, but that's not actually how MJW himself saw it; MJW's reaction after Tasunke flipped was to vote Azza because he thought Azza might have been lying and actually stolen the gun. If MJW thought this was a serious possibility (and he's subsequently clarified that Azza is slightly scummy), then he shouldn't have shot Tasunke.

[Ryan]

MJW has been pretty aggressive vs me since day one so it might be a grudge but pindicator. You did read Serdoas post its pretty convincing tbh and Selrhac is always here. I think Serdoas post is more convincing . You have someone who changes his mind every few minutes, doesnt participate in discussions *Selrahc* VERSUS someone with very wild claims, He killed someone in mid day realy early before he even responded. From day 1 he said that he thought I was the scum but voted Tasunke. Today he thinks Azza or me are scum but killed Tasunke. Is voting for the person me and Serdoa started voting for. I dunno man. I still keep getting the nag that A) that is how Selrahc plays according to you people , B) why isnt he defending himself? Shouldnt scum defend? . Those are very big doubts in my mind vs lynching Selrhac but I dont know it seems more likely to be MJW . KIll someone who is wanted dead. Become a confirmed town. If people are happy about the kill state the reasons they are happy for . Which we all did before he even was asked why. I am not 100% surre pindicator if you have anything contradictory to what I am saying or If i am missing something speak now or be forever silent :P

[Ryan]

and Uberfish cross post convincing me more.

[Serdoa]

Serdoa you're right in your last post about the *previous* gun holder claiming, and starting to convince me. We've just discussed why Tasunke had to be lying, but that's not actually how MJW himself saw it; MJW's reaction after Tasunke flipped was to vote Azza because he thought Azza might have been lying and actually stolen the gun. If MJW thought this was a serious possibility (and he's subsequently clarified that Azza is slightly scummy), then he shouldn't have shot Tasunke.

Yeah, exactly, thats the issue I have with his explanation uberfish. That he states Azza to be scummy but decides to shoot Tasunke. I have decided wrong as vig, I won't blame anyone for that or for shooting early. But not shooting the target you believe to be scum? And explaining it with "but he was a liar", what he didn't know before he shot? I think MJW is scum, knew that either both Azza and Tasunke are villagers (which makes Tasunke the much more likely liar) or Azza is scum with him and therefore decided to take out a villager and receive village-cred for that. And it worked so far.

[MJW (ya that one)]

1. It would be worse for Azza to get lyched as Tasunke would be shown to be a lair. This would cause a double-mislych which is wolf. Unless Azza is a wolf. But if I were a wolf Azza would have to be one to. And that seems unlikely for the reason waterbat said.

You didn't know that Tasunke is lying. Azza could have been lying as well. Considering both are town and you are wolf you knew that one was lying (and in that case Tasunke is more likely). But if you are town, how would you know which one is lying? You don't, so you also don't know that Azzas kill would lead to a double-mislynch. Heck, you even don't know it yet. And you have called Azza in a recent post one of your suspects. So by your own words you consider him scum. But you still knew that killing him and Tasunke would lead to a double-mislynch? I don't get it. For me that reads like a wolf who is tripping over knowledge that he shouldn't have if he was town.

2. Tasunke would have never avoided getting lyched. That's why he would not get a night action. Why? The 50%/50% chance of hitting a wolf is far too tempting for the village to resist. So ether azza or Tasunke is going to die. And its pretty clear from the voting that azza would win unless he did something extremely silly.

I don't agree. Ryan was considering other targets. I was. I believe that the reasoning we have given (Day 3 confirms it without us needing to potentially mislynch) would have been good enough to sway people. But of course that is my stance and you don't have to agree on that.

3. I don't remember saying that azza was scum before tasunke died. I'm just said that although azza had scumism things about him (lockpick, lurking) those things are not even close to tasunke. I can say why I don't like Tasunke at all very much for the billionith time if you want me to.

I said you had a scum-lean on Azza. You say that Azza had scummy things (lockpick, lurking) on him. Seems for me like different words for the same thing.

But honestly, no.1 is enough for me. Your whole explanation always considers in some part knowledge that you should not have had if you were a villager.

MJW

It's pretty obvious that Tasunke was the one likely lying to everyone. It is pretty clear that Tasunke claimed to have a power-role and due to the night results, as novice said, he had to claim vig. He would have targeted waterbat or azza if he was truthful at all during the day-- not bigger. Only other plasible target was azza and although he is a bit scummy he cannot lose to tasunke. For this reason he would get lyched no matter what. He would not be able to pass on his item or do anything useful. The bottom line is that there was no risk for my actions as villager or wolf. Tasunke was dead as soon as azza claimed. I think anyone who does not see that is on major crack or is lying. There is novice, selrahc and lewwyn at the very least who would just dump their vote and go home. I don't think you could beat them without any real support.

Basically it all hindges on the idea Tasunke was screwed to be lyched anyway. It's so obvious that its hard for me to put it in words like saying why 1+1=2.

[Ryan]

You risked the vigi gun MJW.

[Qgqqqqq]

MJW has been pretty aggressive vs me since day one so it might be a grudge but pindicator. You did read Serdoas post its pretty convincing tbh and Selrhac is always here. I think Serdoas post is more convincing . You have someone who changes his mind every few minutes, doesnt participate in discussions *Selrahc* VERSUS someone with very wild claims, He killed someone in mid day realy early before he even responded. From day 1 he said that he thought I was the scum but voted Tasunke. Today he thinks Azza or me are scum but killed Tasunke. Is voting for the person me and Serdoa started voting for. I dunno man. I still keep getting the nag that A) that is how Selrahc plays according to you people , B) why isnt he defending himself? Shouldnt scum defend? . Those are very big doubts in my mind vs lynching Selrhac but I dont know it seems more likely to be MJW . KIll someone who is wanted dead. Become a confirmed town. If people are happy about the kill state the reasons they are happy for . Which we all did before he even was asked why. I am not 100% surre pindicator if you have anything contradictory to what I am saying or If i am missing something speak now or be forever silent :P

Ryan.
He did this yesterday as well, champion his targets all day, never missing a chance to ttack them - but when it comes to time to lynch , he jumps onto the candidate. Read his reasoning - first he uses it as a chance to attack selrahc (already mentally rehearsing his I told you so speech) then he blatantly ignores the actual discussion around the topic (he was convinced by serdoa. yet never offers anything further to the discussion, just restates. points others have made) and.then he talks about MJW. not defending - a wonderful argument to be sure, and one that no one can defend against.
In this way he a) makes sure he's on a target at lynchtime. b) avoids any responsibility for the lynch. and c) is seen as explaining himself without entering the discussion..

P.S I am not judging the mjw. case in this post, merely Ryan's actions.

I am not caught up yet either.