WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Lewwyn]

Well. I find it more than convenient that if forced to pass, he passed it to the person he was trying to frame as scum earlier.

I didmnt think through the multi-day consequences. Curious why you believe scum would want to publicly announce that they know not to kill serdoa.

Well if you were scum and you received the card you would be able to piece through what I did and know he had the can. If Serdoa wasn't killed the next couple nights he might suspect that the scum knew and if you didn't tell anyone about the card then the only one who knew would be you and Serdoa might believe you scum. But if you mention the card then its clear that Serdoa has the can and him not dying does not reflect poorly upon you.

Obviously all of this is just mind games. I don't actually suspect you. And it doesn't matter at all if we lynch Uber and he's the last scum.

[Qgqqqqq]

I like the case on Uberfish the most.
I'm not as sold as Lewwyn is though.

[Serdoa]

Well. I find it more than convenient that if forced to pass, he passed it to the person he was trying to frame as scum earlier.

I didmnt think through the multi-day consequences. Curious why you believe scum would want to publicly announce that they know not to kill serdoa.

Because that is your only way you can get me killed, get me mislynched.

And it is funny, you know why your scumbuddy Selrahc got lynched? Because when he stated that I had no visitors, the first thing I did was asking BRick via PM if the Watcher would also see players passing me an item. He confirmed. So, thats why I was certain that Selrahc was lying. Then you came along, telling us that it could be that an item was randomly distributed to me. But I had your item. How to verify without telling anyone that I had the can? I asked you if anyone would not have thought that novice was the nightkill target. And you answered with: No, it was 100% certain novice would die. THAT was for me the clue that you did indeed not pass it to him = you passed it to me, it was NOT randomly distributed. If that conversation wouldn't have happened, I might have questioned my vote for Selrahc.

And now, I passed you the card, because due to that conversation I also thought you were village - it seemed for me that you also knew that he was lying and tried to tell me with your "100%". Of course, if I told that I passed you the card, scum would know that I have the gas can, because quite honestly, why else would I pass the card and make it more complicated? I didn't want them to know, hoping they would kill me in the night. But no, you had to hurry to tell everyone that I did so, telling everyone that I have the gas can. What for I wonder? Certainly not helping the village. Because if you got scanned (what only could happen N5 earliest, at what point this game should be over) and the board reveals you are scum, and we lynch you, don't you think someone would ask the question why I didn't tell anyone about the item pass? Why I did let you die? I guess they would. You had no reason to reveal that, no reason to believe I would try to set you up. Heck, I ignored you since I got the gas can - never wondered why that is? Well, probably not. Because I think what happened is that you indeed passed the gas can to novice, hoping that it would die with him. But due to the rule change it got randomly passed to me. And that was so unlikely, that neither Selrahc nor you ever expected it (and I didn't either, I was certain you had it passed to me). Thats why you answered like you did on D3 when questioned about the nightkill on novice. Not because you hadn't passed it to novice, but because you thought I am already hunting you.

waterbat

[Lewwyn]

called that...

Not sure i agree that waterbat is guilty. Will read more when home.

Posted from my not iPhone

[Lewwyn]

And it is funny, you know why your scumbuddy Selrahc got lynched? Because when he stated that I had no visitors, the first thing I did was asking BRick via PM if the Watcher would also see players passing me an item. He confirmed. So, thats why I was certain that Selrahc was lying.

@Brick Can you confirm whether a watcher can see who gives an item randomly at night? IE: if someone gives an item to a person who is nightkilled, you made a rule that that item is then passed randomly, the watcher will not see anyone visit and give that randomly place item correct?

[uberfish]

Well, the "case" against me appears to have been a bad voting record and no one's even attempting to analyze how my play would have made any sense as scum. I've not attempted to hide my reasoning at any stage, and if you think I'm scum, you must also think I've gone out of my way to make myself look bad. I simply believed that Rowain was the most likely scum on day 1 because of his insistence on policy lynching Novice who became a town read as that day progressed, and there wasn't much to choose between the 5 suspects on board on day 2 (two of which have already flipped scum.) My role doesn't really fit with scum either as itemseer overlaps watcher too much in scum hands. The actual explanation is I'm town with inaccurate reads.

As for my play last night, I meant what I said: I didn't want to be night killed and seer scanned on the same night which was an extremely likely consequence imo if people agreed with lewwyn to scan me. why? Look at the player pool we have left, no one had a really strong town read on any of Azza, MJW, Mattimeo, Q or Waterbat. I felt we really needed to get as much PR information as possible out to narrow down the suspect pool, and unfortunately the actual scenario is that most of our PR information overlaps with the confirmed people being double or triple confirmed.

Serdoa: I don't agree with your waterbat case, but I'll wait for him to answer himself though before posting my reasoning

oh wait, I think I found some evidence Azza (or Brick) slipped, next post

[Lewwyn]

Serdoa this is what you are referring to?

bah....this is kind of silly...

what about the rule about passing items to people who die?? I was trying to figure out how both Selrahc and Serdoa *could* be telling the truth and that is one way. Serdoa got something, but it wasnt passed to him directly - it was a random redirection - so Selrahc didnt get a result on it.

Well, do you believe someone passed novice an item, despite him clearly being nightkill-target no.1? How likely is that you think? I mean we had quite a few item passes in that night.

* waterbat didnt know that was possible

yeah novice was the 100% night kill target - but everyone knew that - well everyone except the cloak i guess

Azza

I've read it a couple times, but I don't understand why novice was nightkill target #1 and I don't get the 100% night kill target bit. What does that even mean?? And everyone knew that?

Waterbat try to explain it.

Serdoa, I don't even understand how you could think that the 100% was a msg to you?

[Lewwyn]

Uber you seem to be forgetting all the times you've protected Zak. And the times you went along with his suggestions through Day 2. In fact, during that day, Zak proposes and you follow up through out. I think more than anything that's the most damning implication.

[uberfish]

[quote="Azza"}My result PM was "you found nothing to steal". Not that I was blocked, or that it failed, or whatever. It specifically states that there was no item for me to steal.

So unless "you found nothing to steal" means that I was jailed? But that doesn't make sense to me. So I'm pretty confident I wasn't jailed.[/quote]

The result on my n1/n2 scans was returned by Brick "no result", I asked Brick if I'd get the same "no result" if I was jailed/blocked and he confirmed it.

A town thief should therefore also have gotten a "no result" to maintain ambiguity on whether their action had been interfered with by the jailer or their target didn't have an item

However, since scum had the jailer, a SCUM thief could have been given or claimed the result "you found nothing to steal" by the GM because there was no way to block the action, or Azza could simply have claimed that way in the knowledge that his faction had the jailer.

[uberfish]

Uber you seem to be forgetting all the times you've protected Zak. And the times you went along with his suggestions through Day 2. In fact, during that day, Zak proposes and you follow up through out. I think more than anything that's the most damning implication.

No, actually that's not what I did... I voted Zak, and then subsequently followed Serdoa at the end of the day consolidation when we didn't get any more votes on Zak.