WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[Lewwyn]

At the beginning of Day 3 Uberfish wrote this post:

Well I do realise my joke just ended up contributing to the useless spam, so apologies for that.

Anyway, I certainly don't think we should wait for the seer/vig. If the seer has an innocent result on someone he probably passed it to that player and therefore shouldn't claim. If he has a guilty there's information to be gained from seeing whom attacks or defends that player before he claims. Same with the day 1 vigilante who has a strong claim and doesn't need to use it yet unless he actually gets bandwagoned.

Regarding azza. I'll say that the pro-village argument I expected for stealing from Tasunke would have been "to see if he was lying" and he'd have gotten village points if he had said that. "I didn't trust Tasunke with the gun" is neutral - hell I probably wouldn't trust Tasunke with a gun either due to his chaotic style of play. What I don't like about azza is that he didn't do anything on day 2 after Tasunke got shot except to dump his vote on Selrahc for lurking. I take a pretty unfavourable view of lurkers who accuse other lurkers of lurking. Of course that's what merovech did too and he flipped town so But with azza we do have an example of his play in WW17 where he truthfully claimed roleseer when he was scum, and was subsequently overlooked for the rest of the game. So there are a few meta reasons to suspect azza

I do think whomever got the lockpick from Azza, if it has been passed on as he said he would, should claim it.

Regarding selrahc: Whoever is the new vigilante can shoot him if he doesn't post anything today

Regarding zakalwe: I felt pretty indecisive myself at the end of day 2 so I'm now less suspicious of him for the flipping.

Regarding pindicator: Seemed to be overreacting to serdoa putting him on his suspect list.

-Start with some no-brainer townie meta advice.

-Move onto the next part about Azza. Specifically Uber doesn't like that Azza parked his vote on SELRAHC after Tas got shot. I wonder why. And tell me why would Scum Azza try to bus Scum selrahc so early when Scum Zak is trying his Darndest to get Mero or Matt or MJW lynched to save Selrahc? In conclusion a weak argument against Azza that at this point now actually stands in Azza's favor and works to prove Azza is in fact not scum.

-The last part about Sel, Zak and Pindi

A) regarding Selrahc: Vig him if he doesn't speak today... WOW that's certainly a departure from "Hey nobody vig anybody! We can't risk it." Do you know why Uber made this statement about Selrahc? Because he knew Selrahc was going to post and this comment was made to give selrahc a chance and to influence people towards not voting for him. He's not saying selrahc's guilty in fact he's saying the opposite.

B) regarding Zakalwe: "Oh man Zak was indecisive yesterday and helped to slow push a mislynch, but hey I was indecisive yesterday too so let's all give him a free pass!" Too bad Zak was scum. Too bad he got vigged and didn't get a chance to weasel his way out of another lynch today. You really wanted Zak to have his shot Uber. Really pushed for it.

C) regarding Pindicator: Here Uber pushes for the Pindi is suspicious theme. Not unlike Zak does. Here he's doing it softly because they can't have too many scum pushing a truly obvious villager. Better to make small comments here and there and have it subconciously grow in the rest of the villagers minds.

Great post Uber. Way to try and throw Azza and Pindi under the bus while you slyly defend your two scumbuddies!

[Lewwyn]

Uber you seem to be forgetting all the times you've protected Zak. And the times you went along with his suggestions through Day 2. In fact, during that day, Zak proposes and you follow up through out. I think more than anything that's the most damning implication.

No, actually that's not what I did... I voted Zak, and then subsequently followed Serdoa at the end of the day consolidation when we didn't get any more votes on Zak.

Right because Scum don't vote for other scum during the middle part of the day and then later switch their votes to their true mislynch targets. PLEASE. I've done that in every game I've been scum.

And just now in the above post I'm quoting you're claiming that you simply vote for Zak and then "followed Serdoa" when that ran out of steam. You are saying you didn't defend Zak: "No, actually that's not what I did..." but I JUST posted another post by you where you are defending Zak. Oh my it seems we are very contradictory!

[uberfish]

You accuse me of defending zak on day 2 then bring up a post from day 3 as evidence of me defending zak on day 2? WTF? You know what? I don't have a cheat sheet. So my reads change... azza and selrahc were simply up on the suspicion meter at the time and zak down a bit because I reevaluated my tell on him? How is that scummy?

The vig threat to selrahc was an attempt to force him to post, and it's not the only attempt I made to get a reaction out of him, when he attempted to discredit Ryan later.

Lewwyn you're just selectively reading into your own tunnel vision now. Pind really did overreact to serdoa, he'd also accused me of things that didn't make much sense and I always look at people suspiciously when that happens.

Move onto the next part about Azza. Specifically Uber doesn't like that Azza parked his vote on SELRAHC after Tas got shot. I wonder why. And tell me why would Scum Azza try to bus Scum selrahc so early when Scum Zak is trying his Darndest to get Mero or Matt or MJW lynched to save Selrahc? In conclusion a weak argument against Azza that at this point now actually stands in Azza's favor and works to prove Azza is in fact not scum.

Actually my logic doesn't have much to do with Selrahc's alignment. Azza voteparked on selrahc for LURKING. that's hardly a strong bus. It's very easy to move a vote that's parked on a lurker to someone else because X did something more scummy, or Y is lurking more... and the anti-lurking votes were spread between various targets.

[Lewwyn]

You accuse me of defending zak on day 2 then bring up a post from day 3 as evidence of me defending zak on day 2? WTF? You know what? I don't have a cheat sheet. So my reads change... azza and selrahc were simply up on the suspicion meter at the time and zak down a bit because I reevaluated my tell on him? How is that scummy?

Read my exact post:

Uber you seem to be forgetting all the times you've protected Zak. And the times you went along with his suggestions through Day 2. In fact, during that day, Zak proposes and you follow up through out. I think more than anything that's the most damning implication.

I did not say you defended him on Day 2. I said you seem to be forgetting all the times you defended Zak. Then I said "And the times you went along with his suggestions on day 2." There is an "and" there and I did not say you defended him Day 2. Now who's cherry picking and selectively reading? I made the post about Day 3 BEFORE you posted in response to me. I simply referred to it in my response to you as one example where you were defended Zak. Don't try to squirm out of what you posted by trying to throw out my evidence based on your own selective reading. Don't try to discredit me. I went back and showed an extremely SCUMMY post

Actually my logic doesn't have much to do with Selrahc's alignment. Azza voteparked on selrahc for LURKING. that's hardly a strong bus. It's very easy to move a vote that's parked on a lurker to someone else because X did something more scummy, or Y is lurking more... and the anti-lurking votes were spread between various targets.

Yeha you know whats funny is that you voted for Mero for pretty much the exact same reason you are saying you voted for Azza. You are drawing a huge double standard.

And even if you are saying that Azza's vote doesn't mean anything, it does. Azza's vote was there on Selrahc before he went to bed. And I know he's in a similar time zone to me. There is no way that he leaves his vote on a scmbuddy when he won't be able to log on and change it later. You are saying "its very easy to move a vote parked on a lurker to someone else" but gues what uber, it pretty fricken hard to move that vote when you're asleep for 6 hours before the deadline. SO again your reasoning here fails.

[uberfish]

Lewwyn YOU started the line of argument by saying I spent day 2 following zak around. i've shown this not to be the case. I have never said zak was a positive town read and my "defence" of zak amounted to 1) revising my own tell (Which wasn't even the main reason why zak was considered suspicious by other players) and 2) not wanting a vig shot... and really, your decision to vig was WRONG regardless of the result. What if you were wrong and took us down to 1 mislynch remaining? Did you even consider that? You were ALREADY CONFIRMED and had no need to prove your own alignment, we didn't gain a mislynch, and lynching zak could have given us information from who attempted to save him.

voting for Mero for the same reason I voted for azza is a double standard? What? In case you hadn't noticed, Mero, Selrahc and Azza were ALL lurking and going "look, someone else is lurking worse than I am." You don't find that suspicious?

And azza not being able to be around at deadlines... that's complete nonsense. You do realise that he has been around near deadline before in the previous games he played, both when he was town and scum? And that he showed up near the end of *NIGHT* 3 just to make that "scum come at me" post?

[MJW (ya that one)]

The only thing that happened so far is Serdoa's attack on waterbat. waterbat so he will feel under legit pressure and have to post something.

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn YOU started the line of argument by saying I spent day 2 following zak around. i've shown this not to be the case. I have never said zak was a positive town read and my "defence" of zak amounted to 1) revising my own tell (Which wasn't even the main reason why zak was considered suspicious by other players) and 2) not wanting a vig shot... and really, your decision to vig was WRONG regardless of the result. What if you were wrong and took us down to 1 mislynch remaining? Did you even consider that? You were ALREADY CONFIRMED and had no need to prove your own alignment, we didn't gain a mislynch, and lynching zak could have given us information from who attempted to save him.

I never said that you said he was a positive town read. I said that you defended him. Are you saying that the statement,

I felt pretty indecisive myself at the end of day 2 so I'm now less suspicious of him for the flipping.

does no defend Zak? In WW you don't have to say someone is likely a villager to defend them. You know that as well as anyone.

No one ever wants to lynch Zak. It just a fact. I had to vig shoot him in the SMAC game too. TO say let's who would save him is complete bullshit. A vig shot is an important weapon for the village because it narrows down the field like another lynch. I am having a super hard time not flipping out. I know you're scum and you're just doing your part in the game, but don't stoop to saying that using the vig shot was the wrong move. Don't give me that bullshit. Who said anything about me trying to "prove my alignment" by vigging Zak? I did it to win the game, obviously.

voting for Mero for the same reason I voted for azza is a double standard? What? In case you hadn't noticed, Mero, Selrahc and Azza were ALL lurking and going "look, someone else is lurking worse than I am." You don't find that suspicious?

Word twisting. You voted for Mero for for the same reasons that Azza voted for Selrahc and yet he is suspicious for it and you are not. Don't pretend to not understand me.

And azza not being able to be around at deadlines... that's complete nonsense. You do realise that he has been around near deadline before in the previous games he played, both when he was town and scum? And that he showed up near the end of *NIGHT* 3 just to make that "scum come at me" post?

He is barely ever around at deadlines. *I* was still awake when Azza made that scum come at me post and I know that I went to bed at least 4-5 hours before deadline.


Look your arguments are becoming roundabout. You're trying to find ways to attack small details because in the overall scheme of things you don't have a leg to stand on. You are lawyering! I mean its pretty much EXACTLY what Zak was doing the past two days.

[Lewwyn]

The only thing that happened so far is Serdoa's attack on waterbat. waterbat so he will feel under legit pressure and have to post something.

WHAT! WHAT! The only thing that's happened??? Have you not read the last few hours?

[MJW (ya that one)]

The only thing that happened so far is Serdoa's attack on waterbat. waterbat so he will feel under legit pressure and have to post something.

WHAT! WHAT! The only thing that's happened??? Have you not read the last few hours?

Well, other than you ripping Uberfish a more new ones. But that does not count as something happening because that is not new.

[Mattimeo]

Much as I hate to admit it, 9am deadline is not actually that difficult to make if I need to. And I know Azza is same timezone as me.
Daylight Savings actually being remotely useful for a change :/

Tempted to vote him again for consistency. Though voting record would appear to indicate that's not the best idea.

Very much disliking MJW's first post today. Not really sure what it was intended to accomplish.